EV Vehicle recharge

[AlbertaFarmer5]

AB4,

Do you park your EV in a garage and is it heated? Do you warm the interior of the car up while attached to the electric grid?

Neighbour had one of the early Teslas and said he had to warm the interior up while attached to the grid. He thought that a garage was a necessity. A long cold day at work and he struggled to make the 120km return trip home. Heating the cab in -30 without being plugged in really zapped the batteries. Snow on the highway was a real winter killer for him as our roads don’t get plowed very soon after snowfall. A lot of improvements have been made since the early versions.

One place where there is literally no room for improvements, is turning electricity back into heat. Any battery draw within the car has room for improvement, since heat is a by product, if we cam decrease the wasted heat in an electric motor, the battery life improves. Heating the cab is only about making heat.

Last time we bought an electric clothes dryer, we were informed that there are no energy star rebates on clothes dryers, since there is no efficiency to be gained.

[burnt]

It is in the garage about 25%. It’s outside right now at -30 not plugged in. A heated garage is always nice but if you have a good charger you would be ok without. 120v charging in -30 is basically worthless. Highway range in the worst conditions of winter is going to be significantly decreased. It’s easier now with the charging infrastructure than it was back then for sure.

Who is paying for the improved infrastructure?

[ALBERTAFARMER4]

AB4,

Do you park your EV in a garage and is it heated? Do you warm the interior of the car up while attached to the electric grid?

Neighbour had one of the early Teslas and said he had to warm the interior up while attached to the grid. He thought that a garage was a necessity. A long cold day at work and he struggled to make the 120km return trip home. Heating the cab in -30 without being plugged in really zapped the batteries. Snow on the highway was a real winter killer for him as our roads don’t get plowed very soon after snowfall. A lot of improvements have been made since the early versions.

It is in the garage about 25%. It’s outside right now at -30 not plugged in. A heated garage is always nice but if you have a good charger you would be ok without. 120v charging in -30 is basically worthless. Highway range in the worst conditions of winter is going to be significantly decreased. It’s easier now with the charging infrastructure than it was back then for sure.

[ALBERTAFARMER4]

AB4, just curious, what purpose you have for a car, and the nature of all the long road trips? Business or pleasure? I also use a compact car for any trip that doesn't NEED a truck. But as you may have noticed, our fellow farmers all seem to require a truck to haul the mail, or groceries or go to Christmas dinner.
Your situation appears to be ideal for an EV car, living in southern AB where the solar resource is best, solar panels for irrigation, which is actually a good fit, and can be used for charging during the day, unlike a 9 to 5 commuter who can't charge at home off of solar, and the apparent need for long road trips that can be done with a passenger vehicle.

Just to save money and keep miles off 1ton diesel trucks. Your truck lasts a lot longer when you only use it for hauling and towing. The driving experience in a car is a lot nicer especially when it drives itself with your supervision.

[poorboy]

AB4,

Do you park your EV in a garage and is it heated? Do you warm the interior of the car up while attached to the electric grid?

Neighbour had one of the early Teslas and said he had to warm the interior up while attached to the grid. He thought that a garage was a necessity. A long cold day at work and he struggled to make the 120km return trip home. Heating the cab in -30 without being plugged in really zapped the batteries. Snow on the highway was a real winter killer for him as our roads don’t get plowed very soon after snowfall. A lot of improvements have been made since the early versions.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

AB4, just curious, what purpose you have for a car, and the nature of all the long road trips? Business or pleasure? I also use a compact car for any trip that doesn't NEED a truck. But as you may have noticed, our fellow farmers all seem to require a truck to haul the mail, or groceries or go to Christmas dinner.
Your situation appears to be ideal for an EV car, living in southern AB where the solar resource is best, solar panels for irrigation, which is actually a good fit, and can be used for charging during the day, unlike a 9 to 5 commuter who can't charge at home off of solar, and the apparent need for long road trips that can be done with a passenger vehicle.

[ALBERTAFARMER4]

Commercial recharging is 3 to 4 times the cost of home charging? For the average driver who commutes 50 km per work day and does a few longer trips why would you use a commercial charger very much when you can do it at home at much less cost?

This is a tough one because commercial charge rates are all over the map. If I want to charge at a petrocanada charger I have to use a $500 adapter (chademo with a 50kw max) and pay $20/hour roughly. It would probably take 1.5-2 hours to charge at one of these at a cost of $30-35. $30/70kWh =$0.43/kWh.

If I were to charge at a Tesla v3 supercharger (max speed 250KW) this same charge would take 50minutes and cost $24. However when you are paying per minute you can just charge to 80% and its usually about $14.

I am having trouble reading A4s Tesla display but maybe he can comment on recharging costs.

I think his last trip was 47km, took 33 minutes and 13 kwh, averaging about 275Wh per km in winter driving?. Is that correct?

If so, that is a very low cost at Sask Power rates - about $1.82 or 3.8 cents per km.

I'll just type them out since this website is the worst for posting pictures.

Current trip
47km
33min
275Wh/km (temperature was -34 so pretty cold)

Edmonton round trip (-10 going up and -33 coming home with city driving )

1319km
Total energy used 310kWh
Avg energy used 235Wh/km

Lifetime
114,084km
Total energy used 20,503kWh (20.5MWh)
Avg energy used 180Wh/km

114,000km has used $4100 of electricity at an all in cost of $0.20/kWh.

Oh shit , those damn details again !
Why can’t we just thrash blindly ahead ? Mustn’t question the soapboxers that never try to think anything through
Poor chuck
The budget will balance itself

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Coincidentally, I was just reading the Anderson study and I see that Tom posted it here.

Any cost analysis needs to be forward looking. Just like Chucks solar panels, where it works as long as only a small handful of irresponsible takers are abusing the grid by using it as free storage, but increase the uptake very much, and the advantage breaks down and becomes a liability long before a majority can get in on the action.

An EV as of today doesn't pay road tax. That will have to change. And in many jurisdictions, the biggest portion of road fuel is the taxes. GPS based per mile tax is a given in the near future.

Someone gets to pay for the upgraded and added infrastructure to charge the EV's and to get power from the difuse renewable sources. Have a look at Hamloc's power bill posted elsewhere, all the distribution and transmission charges and fees, already dwarf the actual power cost. If we have to essentially double the grid or more to accomodate all the EV's and electric heaters and to connect all the solar farms and wind farms to power them, ( to say nothing of the storage, since that isn't even within the realm of possibility, yet all the people commuting to work during the day, or driving for a living will be attempting to charge at night when there is no sun). So double or triple that cost.

Our leaders aren't promoting EV's because they want them to be fossil fuel powered, using coal and natural gas, they expect them to be powered by so called renewables. Have a look around the world at the massive price increases that accommodate swtiching to supposed renewables, in every single case( still waiting for Chuck to find an exception and prove me wrong). Now figure out how many multiples of our current electricity price we will end up at. Hint, on a day like today, it will go to infinity, once you start putting zeroes into the equation on the production side, and people who refuse to freeze to death on the demand side.

Now look at the cost of the materials in the EV and in the grid and in the renewable generation. Study after study indicates that many of these proposals to go all EV require materials in excess of the known world production or even supply. As always happens when supply exceeds demand, price goes up, which will drive up the purchase price of the EV and the generation and the infrastructure.

EV owners/producers (or renewable generators) currently pay no costs relating to battery or component recycling, whereas this model has already been applied in the fossil fuel upstream industry, to most electronics, to traditional batteries, tires, oil containers, etc. Downloading this cost onto the tax payer won't fly for long, so add this cost, and it isn't insignificant.

As usual, just like Ostrich or Elk farming, or a myriad of other ponzi schemes, the early adopters will make out like bandits, the majority will get royally fleeced, and the entire house of cars will collapse under its own weight.

In the meantime, enjoy the ride and the free ride, I readily accept that they are a lot of fun, and have many practical and economical benefits at the present time.

[jazz]

I wish we could get saved in a time capsule. I’d pay a lot to be revived in 20 years. Would love to see what comes of the foofarah.

Eventually all farmers will have to have a solar array, just so they can keep the ESG carbon bandits off their backs. Hopefully you have a hundred acres somewhere you dont need.

You will probably take ESG spys and activists for annual tours of your farm so they leave you alone too.

Your bank will probably call in your op line unless you meet the latest ESG guidelines.