EV Vehicle recharge

[ALBERTAFARMER4]

AB4,

Do you park your EV in a garage and is it heated? Do you warm the interior of the car up while attached to the electric grid?

Neighbour had one of the early Teslas and said he had to warm the interior up while attached to the grid. He thought that a garage was a necessity. A long cold day at work and he struggled to make the 120km return trip home. Heating the cab in -30 without being plugged in really zapped the batteries. Snow on the highway was a real winter killer for him as our roads don’t get plowed very soon after snowfall. A lot of improvements have been made since the early versions.

It is in the garage about 25%. It’s outside right now at -30 not plugged in. A heated garage is always nice but if you have a good charger you would be ok without. 120v charging in -30 is basically worthless. Highway range in the worst conditions of winter is going to be significantly decreased. It’s easier now with the charging infrastructure than it was back then for sure.

[burnt]

It is in the garage about 25%. It’s outside right now at -30 not plugged in. A heated garage is always nice but if you have a good charger you would be ok without. 120v charging in -30 is basically worthless. Highway range in the worst conditions of winter is going to be significantly decreased. It’s easier now with the charging infrastructure than it was back then for sure.

Who is paying for the improved infrastructure?

[AlbertaFarmer5]

AB4,

Do you park your EV in a garage and is it heated? Do you warm the interior of the car up while attached to the electric grid?

Neighbour had one of the early Teslas and said he had to warm the interior up while attached to the grid. He thought that a garage was a necessity. A long cold day at work and he struggled to make the 120km return trip home. Heating the cab in -30 without being plugged in really zapped the batteries. Snow on the highway was a real winter killer for him as our roads don’t get plowed very soon after snowfall. A lot of improvements have been made since the early versions.

One place where there is literally no room for improvements, is turning electricity back into heat. Any battery draw within the car has room for improvement, since heat is a by product, if we cam decrease the wasted heat in an electric motor, the battery life improves. Heating the cab is only about making heat.

Last time we bought an electric clothes dryer, we were informed that there are no energy star rebates on clothes dryers, since there is no efficiency to be gained.

[WiltonRanch]

One place where there is literally no room for improvements, is turning electricity back into heat. Any battery draw within the car has room for improvement, since heat is a by product, if we cam decrease the wasted heat in an electric motor, the battery life improves. Heating the cab is only about making heat.

Last time we bought an electric clothes dryer, we were informed that there are no energy star rebates on clothes dryers, since there is no efficiency to be gained.

It’ll be like the old caboose our parents rode in as kids to school with the little coal heaters. Have an electric car and a propane space heater so you don’t freeze to death. This is surely a problem that needs to be fixed before EV’s have a chance of being reliable in the cold climates.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

It’ll be like the old caboose our parents rode in as kids to school with the little coal heaters. Have an electric car and a propane space heater so you don’t freeze to death. This is surely a problem that needs to be fixed before EV’s have a chance of being reliable in the cold climates.

Definitely lots of proven old school options to overcome the shortcomings of an EV in a cold climate.
But after a certain point, one has to ask why go through all the hassle just to get back to where we started?
We will have an EV, with a cabin warmed by fossil fuels, charged by a fossil fuel grid, parked in a fossil fuel heated garage to prewarm it, made of and with fossil fuels, and relying on fossil fuel rescue vehicles when something goes wrong.
Could probably cut out the middleman and just power it directly with fossil fuels.

[shtferbrains]

If we just send one person to the climate conference's and told them to say Canada is basicly meaningless in the big picture as we are a carbon sink but to be proactive we will follow China's lead, the largest C02 producer, and use thier deadlines (as they achieve them) for reducing C02 emissions.
They are much more achievable and realistic and by then we can see what works and what doesn't without burning everything we have down.

Problem solved in an already accepted way.

[TOM4CWB]

It’ll be like the old caboose our parents rode in as kids to school with the little coal heaters. Have an electric car and a propane space heater so you don’t freeze to death. This is surely a problem that needs to be fixed before EV’s have a chance of being reliable in the cold climates.

we got it!

We have very efficient small bio-diesel/multi-biofuel genies..... stuff them in the EV trunk[or build EV better ...for best use of excess heat] ... like we do with semi's in North....

Oh wait...Don't we already have EV hybreds that get 90mpg '+' that we Could easily plug into the 'E' grid???

Obviously the millions of miles I drove in the 45 years I travelled... will not happen in the future. Internet, Cell [texting] photo-phones... Instant direct deposit banking... E-commerce...Internet anywhere anytime...

We could drop 75% of Air Miles travelled already... and hurt no-ones health [in fact reduce risk exponentially] Cruise Ships... VR and Internet can reduce human food consumption calorie burn at least by 50%.... 'up to 500sqft living quarters allowed' to be 'Net Zero C' compliant...

The Pandemic has engineered humanity into a 'new era' of civilization/existance!!!

China/Russia/Biden/COP 26/New World Order/EU, won the WuHan Communist revolution!

Welcome to 2022!!!

[chuckChuck]

Definitely lots of proven old school options to overcome the shortcomings of an EV in a cold climate.
But after a certain point, one has to ask why go through all the hassle just to get back to where we started?
We will have an EV, with a cabin warmed by fossil fuels, charged by a fossil fuel grid, parked in a fossil fuel heated garage to prewarm it, made of and with fossil fuels, and relying on fossil fuel rescue vehicles when something goes wrong.
Could probably cut out the middleman and just power it directly with fossil fuels.

60 % of canada's electrcity comes from hydro already. Why the focus on only fossil fuels for charging EVs?

So where there are lots of cheap hydro like Quebec, BC, Manitoba EVs will be charged by renewable hydro. Ontario and New Brunswick also have nuclear.

Some EVs also use heat pumps which are much more efficient than a standard electric heater. Perhaps A4 can tell us about his Tesla cabin temperature in cold weather.

Seems like A4 says his Tesla functions okay at minus 30 and over time you would think Evs will improve their cold weather performance.

[chuckChuck]

This is a tough one because commercial charge rates are all over the map. If I want to charge at a petrocanada charger I have to use a $500 adapter (chademo with a 50kw max) and pay $20/hour roughly. It would probably take 1.5-2 hours to charge at one of these at a cost of $30-35. $30/70kWh =$0.43/kWh.

If I were to charge at a Tesla v3 supercharger (max speed 250KW) this same charge would take 50minutes and cost $24. However when you are paying per minute you can just charge to 80% and its usually about $14.




I'll just type them out since this website is the worst for posting pictures.

Current trip
47km
33min
275Wh/km (temperature was -34 so pretty cold)

Edmonton round trip (-10 going up and -33 coming home with city driving )

1319km
Total energy used 310kWh
Avg energy used 235Wh/km

Lifetime
114,084km
Total energy used 20,503kWh (20.5MWh)
Avg energy used 180Wh/km

114,000km has used $4100 of electricity at an all in cost of $0.20/kWh.

Thanks A4 for posting a real world example of how your Tesla performs.

In Saskatchewan where the regulated rates are cheaper, your costs would come down 25% if most of your charging was at home. 15 cents per kwh or 2.6 cents per km.

If you have a solar system under Sask Powers rules a rough estimate would be 50% lower. Around 1.8 cents per km for electricity costs.

So if a similar ICE car averages 6 litres per 100 km and gas is roughy $1.25 per litre, (that's lower than the current market) fuel costs per km are 7.5 cents per km which is twice the price of Alberta electricity needed to provide the same km in your Tesla.

[ALBERTAFARMER4]

It’ll be like the old caboose our parents rode in as kids to school with the little coal heaters. Have an electric car and a propane space heater so you don’t freeze to death. This is surely a problem that needs to be fixed before EV’s have a chance of being reliable in the cold climates.

What makes you think an EV isn’t reliable at these temperatures?

[Hamloc]

60 % of canada's electrcity comes from hydro already. Why the focus on only fossil fuels for charging EVs?

So where there are lots of cheap hydro like Quebec, BC, Manitoba EVs will be charged by renewable hydro. Ontario and New Brunswick also have nuclear.

Some EVs also use heat pumps which are much more efficient than a standard electric heater. Perhaps A4 can tell us about his Tesla cabin temperature in cold weather.

Seems like A4 says his Tesla functions okay at minus 30 and over time you would think Evs will improve their cold weather performance.

“Why the focus on only fossil fuels for charging EV’s?”

In watching Alberta’s power generation since Christmas, this morning was the highest output of Alberta’s wind farms at 11.7% of capacity. Natural gas and coal were down a bit this morning only producing 87% of Alberta’s power as we were importing 533 mw from B.C. Up from the usual 150-200 mw. Normally Natural gas and coal are closer to 90%. So to answer your question why focus on fossil fuels charging EV’s, because in Alberta in the winter that is the reality the majority of the time.

[chuckChuck]

“Why the focus on only fossil fuels for charging EV’s?”

In watching Alberta’s power generation since Christmas, this morning was the highest output of Alberta’s wind farms at 11.7% of capacity. Natural gas and coal were down a bit this morning only producing 87% of Alberta’s power as we were importing 533 mw from B.C. Up from the usual 150-200 mw. Normally Natural gas and coal are closer to 90%. So to answer your question why focus on fossil fuels charging EV’s, because in Alberta in the winter that is the reality the majority of the time.

Except chronic naysayers like you and A5 never seem to acknowledge that many EVs can be charged by low carbon renewable sources of electricity including hydro in many provinces. Canada has a lot of hydro relatively speaking.

Even in Alberta which is switching all its coal facilities to NG there is about a 50% reduction in carbon emissions with gas over coal.

And just because there are some periods of the year when wind and solar don't provide much electricity that doesn't mean they can't provide a lot of electricity to charge EVs throughout the rest of the year.

As always the naysayers always focus their criticism on the windless and sunless periods to "prove" that solar and wind are not feasible. Wrong!

Saskpower and several Alberta utilities have demonstrated over and over again that both solar and wind are part of the transition away from fossil fuels.

On our farm solar is providing more than our average annual electricity usage. Most months our solar puts out far more than we use. Except for aeration grain drying in the fall. And in some winter months close to or more than we use.

Any excess in the surplus months can easily be stored in an EV battery and help reduce reliance on fossil fuels and reduce carbon emissions.

And as I mentioned in a previous post its clear that EVs can have a lower energy cost than ICE vehicles. Up front costs are still higher, but as EVs take over market share those upfront costs will come down.

[Guest]

I think EV’s are great where they fit
And if I lived in a city where you couldn’t see across the street, why wouldn’t I want one
But they don’t fit here in frozen butt**** sask
And there is the problem with numb nuts plan

[shtferbrains]

I think EV’s are great where they fit
And if I lived in a city where you couldn’t see across the street, why wouldn’t I want one
But they don’t fit here in frozen butt**** sask
And there is the problem with numb nuts plan

Looked seriously at a hybrid SUV for primary transportation meaning not using a late model 1/2 ton. So go to new SUV and older pickup. The reverse of what we have now. Looked close enough to say I was less interested the more I looked. We rarely use the SUV we have. Still like the big Pickup.

Just not ready as the saying goes.

[WiltonRanch]

What makes you think an EV isn’t reliable at these temperatures?

I’m talking about the power draw heating the cabin. Still am not opposed to EV. Just want to see battery tech improve so cold weather doesn’t impact the range as bad. 95% of my driving does not involve more than 60 km round trip. EV would fit my lifestyle quite well but it is flipping cold which worries me.