EV Vehicle recharge

[ALBERTAFARMER4]

AB4, as I stated in a different thread, where I live in central Alberta, a 1000 watt solar panel would produce 1.33 kwh per day in December from a south facing array with the panels at a 60 degree angle to optimize output. How many kwh battery is in your car? Just wondering how large of an array it would take to charge your car if it was totally discharged(a rare occurrence I would guess)?

The battery is name plate 75kWh but at full charge it only takes 61kWh. As far as the question it would really depend on the day. If you want to do it on dec 21st in a snow storm it would take a really big one but if you were to average out the 12month production and have your average daily production at 62 kWh it would be 18KW (southern alberta). In the summer you generate more but the car uses less (less energy per km). With a modern EV having 500km range it's pretty rare that you have to do a full charge unless you're just coming home from a road trip empty or you forgot to charge for a couple days.

But for your exact situation in central alberta in December it would be about 47KW however the car can only take 11KW max charging speed on AC circuit (limited by onboard inverter) so it would be pretty unlikely that you would get 4-5 hours of maximum production in December.

[Old Cowzilla]

Nuclear not looking promising, Germany to close all nuclear plants by end of this year:
https://dailycaller.com/2021/12/30/g...-fossil-fuels/

Bill Gates is doing a joint venture with U.S. gov on nuclear plant. Guess we should follow the money ! Enviro's won't be sending Bill any Christmas cards next year .

[poorboy]

If that’s true then tell me about a 50hp electrical motor on your farm that is getting moved off the grid and on to a gen set for efficiency reasons.

If I was to move a 50 hp electric motor off the grid to a gen set it would not be for efficiency, but to escape the huge monthly transmission and distribution costs that make up the majority of Alberta power bills. More electric vehicles are only going to make those costs increase.

Right now we have an adequate distribution and transmission system. If the province is going to have 50% of all vehicle sales be electric vehicles, then there will be a massive upgrade needed to the transmission and distribution system, which is a cost that EVERY Alberta power user will have to pay. So YES there are lots of costs of electric vehicles that are being passed on to others.

All I am saying is hopefully studies are being done on the whole system approach from start to disposal on things like power, heat and transportation, because right now I see a system measuring things on a per person basis and not a square km basis or even a “global” basis. The impact all these 1 million plus person cities are having on a global basis are huge.

Using current economics, electric vehicles make better economic sense all the time.

[chuckChuck]

https://www.cer-rec.gc.ca/en/data-analysis/energy-markets/market-snapshots/2021/market-snapshot-battery-electric-vehicles-are-far-more-fuel-efficient-than-vehicles-with-internal-combustion-engines.html

Battery electric vehicles (BEVs)Footnote 1 for sale in Canada in 2021 are far more fuel efficientFootnote 2 than vehicles with internal combustion engines (ICEVs). This higher efficiency is largely because electric motors are much more efficient than internal combustion engines (ICEs).

In ICEVs, fuels like diesel and gasoline are ignited so the expanding gas pushes pistons to create motion. However, only 12% to 30% of the energy in gasoline is used to move a vehicle, with most of the remaining energy lost as heat.

BEVs, on the other hand, have electric motors, which use almost all of the energy in electricity to move the vehicle. BEVs also use “regenerative braking”, where, to slow down, the vehicle’s brakes convert kinetic energy (or motion) into electricity and store it in BEV batteries. Altogether, BEVs are far more efficient than ICEVs, with over 77% of the energy in electricity converted into movement when including regenerative braking.

Hybrid-electric vehicles (HEVs) are powered by both an electric motor and an internal combustion engine.Footnote 3 As a result, they are generally more efficient that ICEVs but less efficient than most BEVs.

[jazz]

Is this good fuel economy?

I dunno, since my combine cost lest than one of these I would say paying 50% more on sticker just to be an idealogue doesnt make any economic sense to me but hey each to their own.

A decade making these and the prices are nowhere near to coming down into regular consumer range and they never will be because the constituent parts and materials going up rapidly.

And this hasnt even factored in the tens of billions in system upgrades that will be needed and the subsidies already being paid. Its a math fail all around but maybe in the age of MMT, economics dont matter either.

Nobody is going to buy a used Tesla it seems and take a chance on a $20k battery repair. Be off to the landfill with the panels and windmill blades.

[ALBERTAFARMER4]

I dunno, since my combine cost lest than one of these I would say paying 50% more on sticker just to be an idealogue doesnt make any economic sense to me but hey each to their own.

A decade making these and the prices are nowhere near to coming down into regular consumer range and they never will be because the constituent parts and materials going up rapidly.

And this hasnt even factored in the tens of billions in system upgrades that will be needed and the subsidies already being paid. Its a math fail all around but maybe in the age of MMT, economics dont matter either.

Nobody is going to buy a used Tesla it seems and take a chance on a $20k battery repair. Be off to the landfill with the panels and windmill blades.

[ATTACH]9522[/ATTACH]

LOL, I like how you cherry picked the most expensive model with 1100hp and a quarter mile time of 9.3 seconds. Do you know of any other cars that can do 0-60 in 2seconds and also get 100 MPG?

[jazz]

LOL, I like how you cherry picked the most expensive model with 1100hp and a quarter mile time of 9.3 seconds. Do you know of any other cars that can do 0-60 in 2seconds and also get 100 MPG?

Go search for yourself. There are 10yr old Teslas selling for the same as a new ICE. Some bargain.

Would you buy a 10 yr old battery for your ICE? LOL

Why not just say you like toys and tech and leave at that but trying to sell this as some great economical alternative to ICEs is just not helpful. Its not and never will be. Gasoline and NG will always be the superior fuels.

[ALBERTAFARMER4]

Go search for yourself. There are 10yr old Teslas selling for the same as a new ICE. Some bargain.

Would you buy a 10 yr old battery for your ICE? LOL

Why not just say you like toys and tech and leave at that but trying to sell this as some great economical alternative to ICEs is just not helpful. Its not and never will be. Gasoline and NG will always be the superior fuels.

The fact that you would compare a 12v lead acid battery to a lithium ion 400v battery pack tells me that you know very little about this subject.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

https://www.cer-rec.gc.ca/en/data-analysis/energy-markets/market-snapshots/2021/market-snapshot-battery-electric-vehicles-are-far-more-fuel-efficient-than-vehicles-with-internal-combustion-engines.html

Battery electric vehicles (BEVs)Footnote 1 for sale in Canada in 2021 are far more fuel efficientFootnote 2 than vehicles with internal combustion engines (ICEVs). This higher efficiency is largely because electric motors are much more efficient than internal combustion engines (ICEs).

In ICEVs, fuels like diesel and gasoline are ignited so the expanding gas pushes pistons to create motion. However, only 12% to 30% of the energy in gasoline is used to move a vehicle, with most of the remaining energy lost as heat.

BEVs, on the other hand, have electric motors, which use almost all of the energy in electricity to move the vehicle. BEVs also use “regenerative braking”, where, to slow down, the vehicle’s brakes convert kinetic energy (or motion) into electricity and store it in BEV batteries. Altogether, BEVs are far more efficient than ICEVs, with over 77% of the energy in electricity converted into movement when including regenerative braking.

Hybrid-electric vehicles (HEVs) are powered by both an electric motor and an internal combustion engine.Footnote 3 As a result, they are generally more efficient that ICEVs but less efficient than most BEVs.

Glad you made it back Chuck, and Happy New Year.

You seem to have missed my question, what energy source do you see powering these electric vehicles, electric heating, and the entire electric grid when we meet our pledge of 0 carbon sources in 28 years?

And in your cut and paste above, you failed to consider the efficiency of the power generation, which here in Alberta, and most other places in the world is still fossil fuel powered.

The overall electrical efficiency of a combined-cycle power system is typically in the range of 50-60% — a substantial improvement over the efficiency of a simple, open-cycle application of around 33%

The overall coal plant efficiency ranges from 32 % to 42 %

Do you comprehend how the cumulative efficiencies of a multistep process combine? Or do you still believe that electricity is an energy source all by itself ( like you repeatedly claim that hydrogen is), and there are no efficiencies at the point of generation or transmission to be concerned about?

[Hamloc]

Glad you made it back Chuck, and Happy New Year.

You seem to have missed my question, what energy source do you see powering these electric vehicles, electric heating, and the entire electric grid when we meet our pledge of 0 carbon sources in 28 years?

And in your cut and paste above, you failed to consider the efficiency of the power generation, which here in Alberta, and most other places in the world is still fossil fuel powered.

The overall electrical efficiency of a combined-cycle power system is typically in the range of 50-60% — a substantial improvement over the efficiency of a simple, open-cycle application of around 33%

The overall coal plant efficiency ranges from 32 % to 42 %

Do you comprehend how the cumulative efficiencies of a multistep process combine? Or do you still believe that electricity is an energy source all by itself ( like you repeatedly claim that hydrogen is), and there are no efficiencies at the point of generation or transmission to be concerned about?

As was so eloquently pointed out by AB4 above in Central Alberta in December you would need a 47000 watt solar array to produce enough electricity to charge his Tesla. Looking on dispatcho.app today the solar facility at Innisfail produced O MW’s. So even if you spent the $100000 to build the 47 kw solar system your car wouldn’t go anywhere today in Central Alberta. How does that efficiency compare?

[shtferbrains]

Coal is dead. A zombie that hasn't been put out of it's misery. Not worth talking about as it drops into the abyss.
Right?

This is a cut and paste from the contract description fot the futures;

Coal is the major fuel used for generating electricity worldwide. The biggest producer and consumer of coal is China. Other big producers include: United States, India, Australia, Indonesia, Russia, South Africa, Germany and Poland. The biggest exporters of coal are: Indonesia, Australia, Russia, United States, Colombia, South Africa and Kazakhstan.

Coal is on a rip. Defiantly not dead yet.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Coal is dead. A zombie that hasn't been put out of it's misery. Not worth talking about as it drops into the abyss.
Right?

This is a cut and paste from the contract description fot the futures;

Coal is the major fuel used for generating electricity worldwide. The biggest producer and consumer of coal is China. Other big producers include: United States, India, Australia, Indonesia, Russia, South Africa, Germany and Poland. The biggest exporters of coal are: Indonesia, Australia, Russia, United States, Colombia, South Africa and Kazakhstan.

Coal is on a rip. Defiantly not dead yet.

Until a reliable, safe, cheap, transportable alternative comes along, coal will still be king.



Coal is still producing far more electricity world wide, than, solar, wind, other renewables and hydro electric, all added up.

Even in Germany, coal consumption for electricity generation is going UP this year, along with CO2, along with prices, as they added even more renewables.

[shtferbrains]

Don't get any indication in the western media that coal will be around more than a few more years.
It's like a dead skunk on the side of the road.

China is in the process of starting one big plant that has 1/2 the capacity of all the remaining coal power in Canada. They have many more to bring on stream.

Don't you feel impotant to be boyscouts?

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Don't get any indication in the western media that coal will be around more than a few more years.
It's like a dead skunk on the side of the road.

China is in the process of starting one big plant that has 1/2 the capacity of all the remaining coal power in Canada. They have many more to bring on stream.

Don't you feel impotant to be boyscouts?

Impotent? That is probably as accurate as what you meant to spell.

[shtferbrains]

Impotent? That is probably as accurate as what you meant to spell.

Lots of people out there that are very impotent.
They allways go to great effort to prove it to you.