EV Vehicle recharge

[sumdumguy]

I wish we could get saved in a time capsule. I’d pay a lot to be revived in 20 years. Would love to see what comes of the foofarah.

[TOM4CWB]

Simple solution. We just need to find that hill that all of our grandparents walked up hill both ways when they went to school. We could go the other way both ways.
Of course, the 2 feet of snow year around would cut into the efficiency of the operation.

Another 'interesting study'... cost per mile of operations of EV's....

Business Insider
Watch a Tesla owner blow up his Model S with 66 pounds of dynamite instead of paying $22,000 to repair it
Dominick Reuter
Mon, December 27, 2021, 8:17 AM
Blowing up a Tesla
That's not going to buff out.Beyond The Press
The owner of a 2013 Tesla Model S was facing a $22,000 repair bill to fix a faulty battery.

He teamed up with several YouTubers to strap 66 pounds of explosives to the car and blow it up.

The resulting videos have been seen a combined 5 million times.

For the first 900 miles, Tuomas Katainen's modified 2013 Tesla Model S worked fine, he said. Then water leaks and error codes forced him to call a tow truck to take it in for repairs.

After about a month, the shop told him the faulty battery needed to be replaced, at a cost of about $22,000. In addition to the hefty fee, the work would need to be authorized by Tesla, which was apparently not very enthusiastic about prior work that had been done on the car.

Rather than shell out half the cost of a new Tesla to fix an old one, Katainen decided to do something different. He contacted some of his favorite YouTubers, including Lauri Vuohensilta of Hydraulic Press fame.

After removing the lithium-ion battery, motors, and other expensive components, the crew hauled the chassis out to an old quarry on the outskirts of Jaala, a remote village about two hours from Helsinki, Finland.


The demolition experts from the YouTube channel Pommijätkät (Bomb Dudes) strapped 66 pounds of high explosives to the car and surrounded the area with slow-motion cameras.

As they were finishing the setup, a helicopter swooped in and dropped a mannequin with the face of Tesla CEO Elon Musk, which they strapped into the driver's seat of the doomed sedan.

The crowd retreated to a blast shelter, where Katainen was given the honor of pressing the button and sending his former ride to vehicular Valhalla.

In the video, a charge can be seen racing along the detonation cord, setting off a series of blasting caps that break the windshield and loosen several body panels.

After a short pause, the 14 hotdog-shaped charges erupt into a blinding ball of fire, sending a massive shockwave rippling out from the car.

Footage from a drone flying through the cloud of shrapnel and smoke shows a gray and black smudge where the car used to be.

The videos of the explosion have a combined 5 million views.

The standard warranty on a Model S covers eight years or 150,000 miles but may be voided if the battery is opened or serviced by anyone not authorized by Tesla. The warranty does not cover "damage resulting from intentional actions," like blowing the car up for a YouTube video.

Read the original article on Business Insider"

https://ca.yahoo.com/news/watch-tesla-owner-blow-model-161712290.html

[ALBERTAFARMER4]

Why don't EV's make use of power generating technology to charge batteries. Such as alternators that are proven and on every gas powered vehicle now. Use they might use 1% more energy to turn them, but if they generate say 5% of the charging a 4% net increase. Go 200 miles instead of 180 on charge
Build in solar panels to generate power. Would work when parked or driving. Might gain 100 miles, so up to 300 miles instead of 180.
Have a couple of Ram Air turbines, hidden in grill, or even on top of car. Would work great when driving and if efficient enough, would turn when parked also. Maybe another 150 miles, so up to 450 miles on a charge and reducing grid power usage.
Also if stopped on a blocked road (BC), the solar would keep enough power to drive home when road opens.

I'm just throwing the numbers out for conversation, they aren't proven. My question is why isn't this being done.

I believe EV's are here to stay so please don't debate whether or not they are feasible.

I also think that Hybrids are the best option right now. Sister in Law in Chicago with Toyota Rav4 hybrid goes 6 weeks on tank of gas. Her previous Honda Fit went 2 weeks. That is amazing I think. She says only time gas kicks in is on freeway. As long as under 32-34 MPH it is electric.
Yes here in Sask, mainly high speeds for us farmers it wouldn't help, but every city vehicle would cut fuel usage.

Solar cells on an EV just doesn't work good enough to add any meaningful type of range. If you had 500watts (this is really optimistic) of solar capacity to the roof of a Tesla model 3 you would gain 3.5km/hour. So a 3 hour drive could gain you 10.5km if it's sunny and the battery is warm (IF all the cells were in direct sun light for the entire time). Would do basically nothing in the winter.

If you have a vehicle like the Aptera which is a hyper efficient 3 wheeler that has the aerodynamic drag of 1 Ford F-150 side mirror a small amount of solar charging can add significant range. 40miles per day of range in California.

Any kind of mechanical energy generator will detract from the aerodynamics of the vehicle which is probably the most important factor in EV range and efficiency. The model 3 should be able to get 150-160wh/km in summer conditions but this is a more accurate reflection of highway driving in winter conditions...

[Guest]

I apologize for making assumptions.
Your first couple of suggestions are a perpetual motion machine.
The first law of thermodynamics states that you will never get more energy out than what you put in.
So it will take just as much energy out of your EV battery to drive the alternator, as what you get out of the alternator to charge the battery.

The second law states that breaking even is impossible. You will always get less out than what you put in. Since the alternator and drives have friction, and heat, and electrical losses along tthe way.

There is regenerative braking, which is exactly what you describe. Rather than convert forward motion into heat with a friction brake, you absorb that energy through a generator to recharge the battery.

Yes , and I have been schooled on that on here

[Guest]

I wish we could get saved in a time capsule. I’d pay a lot to be revived in 20 years. Would love to see what comes of the foofarah.

Would be the same outcome as if you looked back 100 years
This idiotic behaviour can only go so far until you run outta other peoples money
And that wood stove won’t have bluetooth

[TOM4CWB]

I wish we could get saved in a time capsule. I’d pay a lot to be revived in 20 years. Would love to see what comes of the foofarah.

Doesn't look like you need to wait 20 years... New study on cost of EV's...

...."Annually, presuming 12,000 miles driven, it would cost $1,030 to drive a gas car versus $1,554 for an EV."

..."So, are EVs really cheaper to power than internal combustion engine (ICE) vehicles? Well, that depends on the yardstick you use when measuring.

Also See: Want To Switch to an EV? Consider These 2021 Standouts
More: 13 Cars That Are Bad News for Tesla

It’s Cheaper To Charge Than To Pump

In 2020, the Department of Energy (DOE) released a study that was more comprehensive than those that had come before. Using a state-level assessment of EV charging costs, the study’s results were much more granular than what came out of previous studies, which assumed a singular value.

It found that the national average to charge an EV is $0.15 per kWh, which DOE determined translated into savings of as much as $14,500 over 15 years on fuel costs alone.

On top of that, EVs are cheaper to maintain — $0.04 cheaper per mile, according to the DOE — which adds another $8,000 in savings for EV drivers over the course of 200,000 miles.

The jury had returned a verdict.

Yes, EVs cost more to buy, but they paid their owners back for the difference and then some over the life of the car — plus the whole zero-emissions thing — and that’s not even counting state and federal tax credits and other incentives.

But a different study was about to get even more granular.

Find: States With Electric Vehicle Incentives

Study Reveals Different Findings

On Oct. 21, 2021, the Anderson Economic Group — a respected economic consulting firm with decades of auto industry experience — released the results of its own study, which was six months in the making. It was the first installation in a larger economic research series that is still being conducted.

Anderson parsed the costs of EV charging much more finely, going beyond just a state-by-state breakdown to examine rural/urban variations. The new methodology also separated vehicles by segment, use and cost.

Titled “Comparison: Real World Cost of Fueling EVs and ICE Vehicles,” the report’s startling results were summarized in its official synopsis: “Electric vehicles can be more expensive to fuel than their internal combustion engine counterparts.”

More: The Most Reliable Car Brands on the Road

There’s More to It Than Just Gas and Electricity

DOE says that the average cost of electricity for an EV is $0.04 per mile, which means it costs $9 to fully charge a battery with a 200-mile range. By comparison, it costs between $0.07 and $0.10 per mile to fuel a gas car, according to AAA.

The Anderson study, however, challenged the presumption that EVs are cheaper to drive — or even cheaper to fuel. It found that powering EVs comes with four hidden costs: the purchase of a home charger, the greatly inflated price of commercial charging at public stations, “deadhead miles” spent driving to find far-flung charging stations and registration taxes that states slap on EV drivers to make up for the fact that they don’t pay gas taxes. The study also factored in the cost of time spent searching for reliable charging stations, which — even when located — can take a half-hour for a charge of 20% to 80%.

Traditional research — like the industry standard provided by DOE — doesn’t take any of that into account. It also presumes a heavily lopsided reliance on cheap, at-home charging instead of expensive commercial charging.

Advice: 16 Unexpected Car Costs and How To Prepare for Them Now

The More You Consider, the Worse EVs Look

Again, the new research is just the first installment in a larger series, but its results are undeniably head-turning. The study found that:

Commercial charging rates are two to four times higher than residential rates.

Level 1 chargers cost an average of $600 to install and can take 20 hours to fully charge an EV.

Level 2 chargers are much faster but cost $1,600.

“Full charge” is a misleading term because charging past 90% is slow, difficult and unadvised, which means you get far fewer miles than the advertised ranges would have you believe. Gas vehicles, on the other hand, are good for 300-400 miles per tank.

Considering all of those factors, and presuming a greater reliance on commercial charging, it would cost $8.58 to fuel a mid-priced gas car that gets 33 mpg for 100 miles at $2.81 a gallon. Comparatively, a mid-priced EV — Tesla Model 3, Nissan Leaf or Chevy Bolt — would cost $12.95 per 100 miles.

Annually, presuming 12,000 miles driven, it would cost $1,030 to drive a gas car versus $1,554 for an EV."

https://ca.yahoo.com/finance/news/really-costs-more-charging-ev-232722262.html

Surprise Surprise...

[chuckChuck]

Commercial recharging is 3 to 4 times the cost of home charging? For the average driver who commutes 50 km per work day and does a few longer trips why would you use a commercial charger very much when you can do it at home at much less cost?

[chuckChuck]

I am having trouble reading A4s Tesla display but maybe he can comment on recharging costs.

I think his last trip was 47km, took 33 minutes and 13 kwh, averaging about 275Wh per km in winter driving?. Is that correct?

If so, that is a very low cost at Sask Power rates - about $1.82 or 3.8 cents per km.

[jazz]

I wish we could get saved in a time capsule. I’d pay a lot to be revived in 20 years. Would love to see what comes of the foofarah.

Eventually all farmers will have to have a solar array, just so they can keep the ESG carbon bandits off their backs. Hopefully you have a hundred acres somewhere you dont need.

You will probably take ESG spys and activists for annual tours of your farm so they leave you alone too.

Your bank will probably call in your op line unless you meet the latest ESG guidelines.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Coincidentally, I was just reading the Anderson study and I see that Tom posted it here.

Any cost analysis needs to be forward looking. Just like Chucks solar panels, where it works as long as only a small handful of irresponsible takers are abusing the grid by using it as free storage, but increase the uptake very much, and the advantage breaks down and becomes a liability long before a majority can get in on the action.

An EV as of today doesn't pay road tax. That will have to change. And in many jurisdictions, the biggest portion of road fuel is the taxes. GPS based per mile tax is a given in the near future.

Someone gets to pay for the upgraded and added infrastructure to charge the EV's and to get power from the difuse renewable sources. Have a look at Hamloc's power bill posted elsewhere, all the distribution and transmission charges and fees, already dwarf the actual power cost. If we have to essentially double the grid or more to accomodate all the EV's and electric heaters and to connect all the solar farms and wind farms to power them, ( to say nothing of the storage, since that isn't even within the realm of possibility, yet all the people commuting to work during the day, or driving for a living will be attempting to charge at night when there is no sun). So double or triple that cost.

Our leaders aren't promoting EV's because they want them to be fossil fuel powered, using coal and natural gas, they expect them to be powered by so called renewables. Have a look around the world at the massive price increases that accommodate swtiching to supposed renewables, in every single case( still waiting for Chuck to find an exception and prove me wrong). Now figure out how many multiples of our current electricity price we will end up at. Hint, on a day like today, it will go to infinity, once you start putting zeroes into the equation on the production side, and people who refuse to freeze to death on the demand side.

Now look at the cost of the materials in the EV and in the grid and in the renewable generation. Study after study indicates that many of these proposals to go all EV require materials in excess of the known world production or even supply. As always happens when supply exceeds demand, price goes up, which will drive up the purchase price of the EV and the generation and the infrastructure.

EV owners/producers (or renewable generators) currently pay no costs relating to battery or component recycling, whereas this model has already been applied in the fossil fuel upstream industry, to most electronics, to traditional batteries, tires, oil containers, etc. Downloading this cost onto the tax payer won't fly for long, so add this cost, and it isn't insignificant.

As usual, just like Ostrich or Elk farming, or a myriad of other ponzi schemes, the early adopters will make out like bandits, the majority will get royally fleeced, and the entire house of cars will collapse under its own weight.

In the meantime, enjoy the ride and the free ride, I readily accept that they are a lot of fun, and have many practical and economical benefits at the present time.

[Guest]

Oh shit , those damn details again !
Why can’t we just thrash blindly ahead ? Mustn’t question the soapboxers that never try to think anything through
Poor chuck
The budget will balance itself

[ALBERTAFARMER4]

Commercial recharging is 3 to 4 times the cost of home charging? For the average driver who commutes 50 km per work day and does a few longer trips why would you use a commercial charger very much when you can do it at home at much less cost?

This is a tough one because commercial charge rates are all over the map. If I want to charge at a petrocanada charger I have to use a $500 adapter (chademo with a 50kw max) and pay $20/hour roughly. It would probably take 1.5-2 hours to charge at one of these at a cost of $30-35. $30/70kWh =$0.43/kWh.

If I were to charge at a Tesla v3 supercharger (max speed 250KW) this same charge would take 50minutes and cost $24. However when you are paying per minute you can just charge to 80% and its usually about $14.

I am having trouble reading A4s Tesla display but maybe he can comment on recharging costs.

I think his last trip was 47km, took 33 minutes and 13 kwh, averaging about 275Wh per km in winter driving?. Is that correct?

If so, that is a very low cost at Sask Power rates - about $1.82 or 3.8 cents per km.

I'll just type them out since this website is the worst for posting pictures.

Current trip
47km
33min
275Wh/km (temperature was -34 so pretty cold)

Edmonton round trip (-10 going up and -33 coming home with city driving )

1319km
Total energy used 310kWh
Avg energy used 235Wh/km

Lifetime
114,084km
Total energy used 20,503kWh (20.5MWh)
Avg energy used 180Wh/km

114,000km has used $4100 of electricity at an all in cost of $0.20/kWh.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

AB4, just curious, what purpose you have for a car, and the nature of all the long road trips? Business or pleasure? I also use a compact car for any trip that doesn't NEED a truck. But as you may have noticed, our fellow farmers all seem to require a truck to haul the mail, or groceries or go to Christmas dinner.
Your situation appears to be ideal for an EV car, living in southern AB where the solar resource is best, solar panels for irrigation, which is actually a good fit, and can be used for charging during the day, unlike a 9 to 5 commuter who can't charge at home off of solar, and the apparent need for long road trips that can be done with a passenger vehicle.

[poorboy]

AB4,

Do you park your EV in a garage and is it heated? Do you warm the interior of the car up while attached to the electric grid?

Neighbour had one of the early Teslas and said he had to warm the interior up while attached to the grid. He thought that a garage was a necessity. A long cold day at work and he struggled to make the 120km return trip home. Heating the cab in -30 without being plugged in really zapped the batteries. Snow on the highway was a real winter killer for him as our roads don’t get plowed very soon after snowfall. A lot of improvements have been made since the early versions.

[ALBERTAFARMER4]

AB4, just curious, what purpose you have for a car, and the nature of all the long road trips? Business or pleasure? I also use a compact car for any trip that doesn't NEED a truck. But as you may have noticed, our fellow farmers all seem to require a truck to haul the mail, or groceries or go to Christmas dinner.
Your situation appears to be ideal for an EV car, living in southern AB where the solar resource is best, solar panels for irrigation, which is actually a good fit, and can be used for charging during the day, unlike a 9 to 5 commuter who can't charge at home off of solar, and the apparent need for long road trips that can be done with a passenger vehicle.

Just to save money and keep miles off 1ton diesel trucks. Your truck lasts a lot longer when you only use it for hauling and towing. The driving experience in a car is a lot nicer especially when it drives itself with your supervision.