Dockage & Shrinkage

[Herc]

And yes there is lots of times, more than you think, that employees add dockage at the scale or in the computer. I can't figure out why they would do that they are taking $ from farmers some of them are friends even relatives besides if Act was enforced they could face hefty fines even jail.

Its called tookage….

[sumdumguy]

Been on both sides of the industry. If I told you how many times a grain buyer deals with the bait and switch farmer you would call me a liar. Farmer brings in pail, delivers totally different product. Hard for the honest ones to believe that, but it does happen. Best is where producer is right there for the grading and dockage assessment. But if you load a semi and it is gone - how much control or input do we have? Just last fall durum graded 1 and 2, dockage varied between 1% and 4%.one too low and maybe 4 too high. Guess I see it differently as I believe there is no exact. JMHO Probably pissed a few of you off today, didn’t mean to, just my experience.

[furrowtickler]

Been on both sides of the industry. If I told you how many times a grain buyer deals with the bait and switch farmer you would call me a liar. Farmer brings in pail, delivers totally different product. Hard for the honest ones to believe that, but it does happen. Best is where producer is right there for the grading and dockage assessment. But if you load a semi and it is gone - how much control or input do we have? Just last fall durum graded 1 and 2, dockage varied between 1% and 4%.one too low and maybe 4 too high. Guess I see it differently as I believe there is no exact. JMHO Probably pissed a few of you off today, didn’t mean to, just my experience.

Yup that happens, lots of guys out there like that .
But it does happen the other way , absolutely no doubt as well

[wmoebis]

Been on both sides of the industry. If I told you how many times a grain buyer deals with the bait and switch farmer you would call me a liar. Farmer brings in pail, delivers totally different product. Hard for the honest ones to believe that, but it does happen. Best is where producer is right there for the grading and dockage assessment. But if you load a semi and it is gone - how much control or input do we have? Just last fall durum graded 1 and 2, dockage varied between 1% and 4%.one too low and maybe 4 too high. Guess I see it differently as I believe there is no exact. JMHO Probably pissed a few of you off today, didn’t mean to, just my experience.

There is one company that is famous for adding .2, .3 right up to .7 or 1% to dockage reporting or into computer then says must have been a entering error, another that adds extra to results then adds dockage to retained sample so if you complain looks like they gave you a break, still another that uses wrong set up in carter day and most will weight wrong pans coming out of dockage machine.

I agree farmers have to be there and watch to make sure it is done and counted right just like watching bank teller or cashier count cash or change.

[Blaithin]

Had someone delivering last week, all one bin, proteins from 13.6 up to 14.9. Most high 14s. Had a random load test 12.6.

Now this is a very organized farmer. He takes representative samples of every load as he loads it to retest if there’s something off. Even the most well meaning staff can have an oops mislabelling a sample so this is to try and help offset that possibility.

Either way, he brings in his own bagged sample for the load, puts it in the machine and hits the orange button himself. 12.6.

The oddity of how a bin throwing primarily high 14 protein can suddenly throw one load of 12.6 is hard to explain. If it had been on our sample we probably would have said oops, something must have got messed up, here we’ll make it 14.6. Yet having his own sample showed that it is possible and it’s not always a human error on the terminal staffs part.

Also too often the fact a company needs grain so is willing to buy a 2 or 3 as a higher grade in order to get it is confused with thinking that it was graded a higher grade. Yes mis grades happen but more frequently than not it’s going to be something was missed and the grain was graded higher than it is than that something was seen that wasn’t there and it downgraded it. Subjective factors not included in this generalization.

And yes, I’ve worked at places that want to add to dockage no matter what and I know employees that said they would refuse to until the company put something in writing saying they had to do it.

And yes, I’ve seen employees just add it.

I’ve also seen farmers bring in a bin sample and then haul something completely different. Bins might throw some outlying stuff, like a 12.6 pro load, but even a half decent grader can look at samples and tell when it’s not the same stuff.

[beaverdam]

Yup that happens, lots of guys out there like that .
But it does happen the other way , absolutely no doubt as well

We are meticulous in sampling at harvest, so we know are samples are representative.

Had an experience last fall delivering durum. Our samples graded #2 by a couple graincos, and took a contract with one of them. Started hauling 2 months later and suddenly some loads were #3. I was not happy, and was having a lot of anxiety as the discounts would be painful. After the contract was filled, the overall avg. did make #2, so no discounts, but I ended up loosing a lot of sleep. Glad I didn't over react at the time, because I was very concerned I was being played,,, just to get my product in the door.
You know, easy grade the samples,,, tough grade the unloads.

[LWeber]

Had someone delivering last week,.

Thank you for sharing ...and being you ...

[sumdumguy]

An issue our neighbour has right now, made a deal with a local elevator to sell his #2 durum at $20, April delivery. The contract came and it said #3 Durum Jan/Feb delivery. He phoned back and told them that the deal was wrong on the paper. The buyer said, “ Just sign it and send it in, we’ll make the changes when we get it here”. The producer said, “ No, change it and send me the correct one.” Consequently, still waiting and calling.

[blackpowder]

We haul a lot of wheat in right off combine. You can see variance through
a field.

[TOM4CWB]

We haul a lot of wheat in right off combine. You can see variance through
a field.

Processors always have totally different rules than licensed primary elevators RE: CGC. There is actual shrinkage loss if they pay on clean seed after processing/cleaning... not like doing a dockage test at a licensed CGC elevator.

Big difference for process elevators. Find out up front what their terms are... unlikely they use Primary Elevator CGC standards.

If it is a seed cleaning plant. not registered with the CGC... then you could be selling to a Grain Dealer off the cleaner... 101 ways it can happen then!

[TOM4CWB]

Processors always have totally different rules than licensed primary elevators RE: CGC. There is actual shrinkage loss if they pay on clean seed after processing/cleaning... not like doing a dockage test at a licensed CGC elevator.

Big difference for process elevators. Find out up front what their terms are... unlikely they use Primary Elevator CGC standards.

If it is a seed cleaning plant. not registered with the CGC... then you could be selling to a Grain Dealer off the cleaner... 101 ways it can happen then!

If off the cleaner... then who got the screenings... can you get a sample of them? That can tell a big story. Flax can be very difficult to clean... canola is often wicked to get out...

[wmoebis]

Processors always have totally different rules than licensed primary elevators RE: CGC. There is actual shrinkage loss if they pay on clean seed after processing/cleaning... not like doing a dockage test at a licensed CGC elevator.

Big difference for process elevators. Find out up front what their terms are... unlikely they use Primary Elevator CGC standards.

If it is a seed cleaning plant. not registered with the CGC... then you could be selling to a Grain Dealer off the cleaner... 101 ways it can happen then!

This is one thing brought up at CHC review meetings. Should Processors and Seed dealers be licensed as primary elevators? That would give farmers protection under the Act.

[TOM4CWB]

This is one thing brought up at CHC review meetings. Should Processors and Seed dealers be licensed as primary elevators? That would give farmers protection under the Act.

Interesting idea... That would mean all farmers buying planting seed would need to be licensed and bonded by the CGC to buy planting seed from seed growers... if planting seed were under the authority of The Canada Grain Act instead of the Canada Seeds Act.

It is up to farmers to decide who to sell their 'grain" to... not the CGC.

Cheers

[wmoebis]

Interesting idea... That would mean all farmers buying planting seed would need to be licensed and bonded by the CGC to buy planting seed from seed growers... if planting seed were under the authority of The Canada Grain Act instead of the Canada Seeds Act.

It is up to farmers to decide who to sell their 'grain" to... not the CGC.

Cheers

Not all farmers to buy seeds to plant. Your right it is up to farmers to decide who to sell their grain to and to agree to the terms of that sale including dockage assessment. The problem as in this case who is the police when they don't agree on how it it done or the results?