Dockage & Shrinkage

[Guest]

Greetings All,

Recently shipped supper B load of Flax to a grain processor, grain receipt arrived this morning. They deducted 1% shrinkage and reported higher than expected dockage. This delivery was not to a primary terminal but thinking shrinkage no longer allowed possibly since 2011. Any feedback about that?

The dockage - well I sampled the load as I attended the loading. Today I had that sample checked at local Viterra, moisture 7.3 and dockage 3.5%. Company I sold to reported 6.7%. Humm ….. dare I mention the company! I will exhausted efforts to resolve but not optimistic. Contract was signed Nov 1, 2021 and pricing strong. Company seems to be trying to make up the $10. a bushel deficit and higher freight costs at my expense.

[LEP]

I had that happen one time on a load of coriander. I had cleaned to export standards and they wanted to take a fairly hefty dockage. I said so what is in the dockage. Wheat. Interesting, we had only grown wheat twice on the farm and it was 35 years before the coriander. So I call BS. They still took what they wanted.

[iceman]

Was the delivery in the contracted month? Was the cheque on time?

Iceman

[Guest]

Was the delivery in the contracted month? Was the cheque on time?

Iceman

Contract was Jan / Feb delivery window. Truck left my yard this past Monday, so 2 weeks late, also was last day of winter weights (Sask). Settlement has been offered but trying to resolve the shrinkage and dockage situation. Asking for a recheck, possible internal error.

[Guest]

I had that happen one time on a load of coriander. I had cleaned to export standards and they wanted to take a fairly hefty dockage. I said so what is in the dockage. Wheat. Interesting, we had only grown wheat twice on the farm and it was 35 years before the coriander. So I call BS. They still took what they wanted.

Sorry to hear, education has a cost!

[rumrocks]

Dockage was Doc Holliday's speciality, he usually got 0 after some negotiating.

[TASFarms]

Greetings All,

Recently shipped supper B load of Flax to a grain processor, grain receipt arrived this morning. They deducted 1% shrinkage and reported higher than expected dockage. This delivery was not to a primary terminal but thinking shrinkage no longer allowed possibly since 2011. Any feedback about that?

The dockage - well I sampled the load as I attended the loading. Today I had that sample checked at local Viterra, moisture 7.3 and dockage 3.5%. Company I sold to reported 6.7%. Humm ….. dare I mention the company! I will exhausted efforts to resolve but not optimistic. Contract was signed Nov 1, 2021 and pricing strong. Company seems to be trying to make up the $10. a bushel deficit and higher freight costs at my expense.

What was the moisture? Maybe they got moisture and dockage mixed up

[furrowtickler]

Things get interesting when some crop prices get high. Nit picking starts hard, like pulses . It will happen in other crops when values drop , and eventually they will .
Take green peas , one of the few commodities that have actually dropped the past few months.
I know a few guys that are now getting royally screwed now . $16 contracts earlier now $14 , things change. They are all the same when prices drop ...
Paying big bucks for protein becomes a farce when chips are on the line ... DYODD
That really Bugg’s me ...
All of a sudden they make excuses as to grade ... imagine that , as they always have . The same dog and pony show as the generation before them . When things start slipping , the excuses start...... same game , 30 years on, different generation ,same family line that is now outbidding everyone in the area for land . Line companies no different when the the ball drops out of their favour .
Be careful who you deal with in “special crops” .... as per usual. When the excuses start ..... get a lawyer. It’s unfortunate but the game .
Apples don’t fall far from the tree ... ever

[wmoebis]

What did they find for dockage that Viterra didn't?
Did they use proper procedures and equipment? How was the sample taken from your load?
Was there a mix up with samples at delivery?
I would notify the CGC to find out your rights and so they are Red Flagged in case others have issues.

[JoeyJeremiah]

Greetings All,

Recently shipped supper B load of Flax to a grain processor, grain receipt arrived this morning. They deducted 1% shrinkage and reported higher than expected dockage. This delivery was not to a primary terminal but thinking shrinkage no longer allowed possibly since 2011. Any feedback about that?

The dockage - well I sampled the load as I attended the loading. Today I had that sample checked at local Viterra, moisture 7.3 and dockage 3.5%. Company I sold to reported 6.7%. Humm ….. dare I mention the company! I will exhausted efforts to resolve but not optimistic. Contract was signed Nov 1, 2021 and pricing strong. Company seems to be trying to make up the $10. a bushel deficit and higher freight costs at my expense.

Same thing happened to me. Was expecting 3% dockage, the grade came back as 9%. I sold it through a broker and it went to the states. Was supposed to be $45/by. Sold a 43 tonne load, so their is 13 tonnes left as they only took 30 as it went south. They are only offering 28 for any overage. I think I may wait until next year to market the rest as only sicophants would grow the shit. It certainly is the most risky with crop insurance prices and yields, and not even in the same ball park for profitability as canola and oats.

[Blaithin]

Things get interesting when some crop prices get high. Nit picking starts hard, like pulses . It will happen in other crops when values drop , and eventually they will .
Take green peas , one of the few commodities that have actually dropped the past few months.
I know a few guys that are now getting royally screwed now . $16 contracts earlier now $14 , things change. They are all the same when prices drop ...
Paying big bucks for protein becomes a farce when chips are on the line ... DYODD
That really Bugg’s me ...
All of a sudden they make excuses as to grade ... imagine that , as they always have . The same dog and pony show as the generation before them . When things start slipping , the excuses start...... same game , 30 years on, different generation ,same family line that is now outbidding everyone in the area for land . Line companies no different when the the ball drops out of their favour .
Be careful who you deal with in “special crops” .... as per usual. When the excuses start ..... get a lawyer. It’s unfortunate but the game .
Apples don’t fall far from the tree ... ever

You might be surprised how often stuff is downgraded but still “ah put it in as a 1 or a 2, we can work with that”

The problems more frequently arise when a degrading factor is more wide spread and graders at export pick it. Can’t work with a downgrade if it’s everywhere and the third parties pick it. Wanna guess how happy a company gets if you load a train bought as a 1 red and it grades a 2 at port because you weren’t “nit picking” the degrading factors?

You know how much heated I seen in the last two weeks that was followed by “well the rest of the bin was fine (6 months ago)” and “it’s only 2 loads, can’t you just take it” Might be fine if you’re the first person with a load of heated but if you’re the second or third you're probably out of luck.

Farmers also need to be careful with their primary crops, not just special crops. Just because a degrading factor can be overlooked once doesn’t mean it can be overlooked all the time. Doesn’t have to have anything to do with price, or maybe it does because a companies head office is cracking down. Lots of factors at play.

[wmoebis]

You might be surprised how often stuff is downgraded but still “ah put it in as a 1 or a 2, we can work with that”

The problems more frequently arise when a degrading factor is more wide spread and graders at export pick it. Can’t work with a downgrade if it’s everywhere and the third parties pick it. Wanna guess how happy a company gets if you load a train bought as a 1 red and it grades a 2 at port because you weren’t “nit picking” the degrading factors?

You know how much heated I seen in the last two weeks that was followed by “well the rest of the bin was fine (6 months ago)” and “it’s only 2 loads, can’t you just take it” Might be fine if you’re the first person with a load of heated but if you’re the second or third you're probably out of luck.

Farmers also need to be careful with their primary crops, not just special crops. Just because a degrading factor can be overlooked once doesn’t mean it can be overlooked all the time. Doesn’t have to have anything to do with price, or maybe it does because a companies head office is cracking down. Lots of factors at play.

I agree with you but have trouble with those theories. A graders job is to grade it and bin it as it is. The merchants can and do pay what ever they want for those qualities. If you have a #2 call it a #2 the merchant can pay more if it can be blended up or cleaned for grade improvement. It is when intentional miss assessment or lack of knowledge that upsets me. And I've seen it all in every company.

Just because head office tells grader to crack down doesn't mean they should start miss representing. At the prices today it doesn't take much to make a big difference to take home.

He is also talking processor so it should be it is what it is.

[sumdumguy]

There really isn’t “a grade is what it is”. We’ve had extra-3 lentils get graded a few months later as a one or a two. Frozen feed durum, next spring suddenly a #2. Just depends how short the company is that needs them “today”. Grading is quite subjective as beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. I know of a case where a green buyer has been known to actually add the dockage onto the gross weight for payment. Believe it or not. Farmers think that seed plants can just pick out the dockage. Some good product, dust and weight gets lost in the process, maybe not 5% but sometimes I am sure 2-3%, seen it over and over. Who absorbs the losses at 75 cent a pound flax or 55 cent lentils?

[Guest]

Morning, spoke with a CGC Rep, under Canadian Grain Regulations - Part 5, Section 30 discusses Shrinkage. Rate at all elevators is zero. So hoping to win that point. Special crops, smaller grain companies = risk. Read contracts front to back, be sure to have all signatures as well. Thanks everyone for your input!

[wmoebis]

There really isn’t “a grade is what it is”. We’ve had extra-3 lentils get graded a few months later as a one or a two. Frozen feed durum, next spring suddenly a #2. Just depends how short the company is that needs them “today”. Grading is quite subjective as beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. I know of a case where a green buyer has been known to actually add the dockage onto the gross weight for payment. Believe it or not. Farmers think that seed plants can just pick out the dockage. Some good product, dust and weight gets lost in the process, maybe not 5% but sometimes I am sure 2-3%, seen it over and over. Who absorbs the losses at 75 cent a pound flax or 55 cent lentils?

I disagree, If done properly by the Grain Guide by a properly trained person the only subjective part is under the subjective factors assessing frost and mildew, even then a properly trained grader will rarely make mistakes. The problem is there is no universal/certified training.

And yes there is lots of times, more than you think, that employees add dockage at the scale or in the computer. I can't figure out why they would do that they are taking $ from farmers some of them are friends even relatives besides if Act was enforced they could face hefty fines even jail.