No more cheap reliable coal fired generation in AB.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

AB4, there are a lot of efficiencies to be gained by burning fossil fuels in a central location and using all electric powertrains versus in a car engine, and mechanical powertrains

But if your chart is to be believed. Then taking into account the roughly 40% hydro and solar in Northwest Territories, burning diesel fuel in a diesel generator, transmitting that energy, charging and discharging etc is about four and a half times more efficient than burning gasoline in a car directly.
So, unless Northwest Territories has installed carbon capture on every one of their diesel generators, I think we need to question that statistic as presented.
And as if we have discussed multiple times on here, solar should not be considered in the energy mix that powers the average commuters electric vehicle. They will be charged at home at night in the dark.

[Hamloc]

Why is coal better than natural gas?

Historically in Alberta coal generating plants were built close to their source of coal. Therefore they had a captive fuel source that was less susceptible to world prices allowing for more consistent pricing. Natural gas on the other hand is subject to the world market. My brother in law who is Australian talked about how much natural gas costs went up in Australia when they started exporting LNG. World demand for natural gas will eventually do the same in Canada as we are seeing now. European governments infatuation with Chinese manufactured solar panels, so called green energy, illustrate how this push for renewable energy has increased electricity costs and increased dependency on natural gas to keep the lights on when the wind doesn’t blow and the sun doesn’t shine. Russia and China have benefitted from this short sighted policy direction.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

No but there are probably 10 different ways to make electricity and only 1 way to make steel.

Actually, there are other ways to make steel. There have been some pilot projects, and even production scale facilities trying to fabricate so-called green steel. With no, or low emissions. So far, they have been spectacularly expensive and upractical.
Almost reminds me green energy...

[AlbertaFarmer5]

No but there are probably 10 different ways to make electricity and only 1 way to make steel.
Also if you can show me the math that says burning fossil fuels to power an electric vehicle isn't better than using fossil fuels in an ICE, I'd like to see it. These are 2 of the dirtiest grids in Canada...

Better was a poor choice of words, I edited it accordingly.
If the only definition of better, is by measuring which emits less plant fertilizer, then this is a meaningless meaure.

Better, should measure which has the smallest environmental impact(full life cycle), which is the most economical ( full life cycle), most reliable( let me know how the EV's charged by solar, in NWT are working out, a hint, there is not waste heat from an ICE in those conditions, it keeps the passengers from freezing to death), most sustainable( which is in shorter supply right now, rare earths, or coal?), and which has an existing infrastructure in place( the CO2 footprint of building generation, transmission, and charging infrastructure needs to be included).

[ALBERTAFARMER4]

Better was a poor choice of words, I edited it accordingly.
If the only definition of better, is by measuring which emits less plant fertilizer, then this is a meaningless meaure.

Better, should measure which has the smallest environmental impact(full life cycle), which is the most economical ( full life cycle), most reliable( let me know how the EV's charged by solar, in NWT are working out, a hint, there is not waste heat from an ICE in those conditions, it keeps the passengers from freezing to death), most sustainable( which is in shorter supply right now, rare earths, or coal?), and which has an existing infrastructure in place( the CO2 footprint of building generation, transmission, and charging infrastructure needs to be included).

If you look at it from a physics standpoint a litre of gasoline is 8.9 kWh. So if you have a gasoline vehicle and an EV with equal amounts of energy (1L in the ICE and 8.9 kWh in the EV) which one would travel the most distance?

Volkswagen Jetta 2022 gasser 6L/100km 1L =16.67km
Tesla model 3 standard range 146wh/km = 60.95km

So why would the one that goes less than 1/3 the distance on the same amount of energy be better for the environment?

[AlbertaFarmer5]

If you look at it from a physics standpoint a litre of gasoline is 8.9 kWh. So if you have a gasoline vehicle and an EV with equal amounts of energy (1L in the ICE and 8.9 kWh in the EV) which one would travel the most distance?

Volkswagen Jetta 2022 gasser 6L/100km 1L =16.67km
Tesla model 3 standard range 146wh/km = 60.95km

So why would the one that goes less than 1/3 the distance on the same amount of energy be better for the environment?

That would depend on how much energy is inherent in the batteries, the charging stations the transmission the new generation, the recycling of said batteries etc.
I was hoping you might attempt to address the Northwest Territories example, where the CO2 emissions are seven and a half times more for a gas engine than the electrical grid powered by diesel. Does that make any sense at all?

[Sheepwheat]

If you look at it from a physics standpoint a litre of gasoline is 8.9 kWh. So if you have a gasoline vehicle and an EV with equal amounts of energy (1L in the ICE and 8.9 kWh in the EV) which one would travel the most distance?

Volkswagen Jetta 2022 gasser 6L/100km 1L =16.67km
Tesla model 3 standard range 146wh/km = 60.95km

So why would the one that goes less than 1/3 the distance on the same amount of energy be better for the environment?

The electricity for the Tesla came from thin air, correct? It just kind of hatched automatically. Nothing was burned to make the electricity, right? Don’t say solar, because where I live the sun almost never shines. And don’t say wind, it’s the same as the sun.

If you do say solar and wind, tell me how the panels and the single use turbine props were made without fossil fuel.

[ALBERTAFARMER4]

That would depend on how much energy is inherent in the batteries, the charging stations the transmission the new generation, the recycling of said batteries etc.
I was hoping you might attempt to address the Northwest Territories example, where the CO2 emissions are seven and a half times more for a gas engine than the electrical grid powered by diesel. Does that make any sense at all?

Oh sorry about that. Here you go…

Electricity Fuel Emissions Source Data:
-Fuel consumption values are sourced from Natural Resources Canada
-1 litre of gasoline emits 2.44kg CO2e
-1 kWh produced by 100% Coal emits 0.909kg of CO2e
-1kWh produced by 100% Natural Gas emits 0.465kg of CO2e
-1kWh produced by 100% Renewables emits 0.000kg of CO2e
-1kWh produced by 100% Biomass emits 1.5kg of CO2e
-1kWh produced by 100% Diesel Generator emits 0.25kg of CO2e

[shtferbrains]

If you look at it from a physics standpoint a litre of gasoline is 8.9 kWh. So if you have a gasoline vehicle and an EV with equal amounts of energy (1L in the ICE and 8.9 kWh in the EV) which one would travel the most distance?

Volkswagen Jetta 2022 gasser 6L/100km 1L =16.67km
Tesla model 3 standard range 146wh/km = 60.95km

So why would the one that goes less than 1/3 the distance on the same amount of energy be better for the environment?

How many KW to replace the fossil fuels the ICE use in North America?
S/B a simple 2 number calculation for anyone with a basic understanding of physics?
That never included me.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Oh sorry about that. Here you go…

Electricity Fuel Emissions Source Data:
-Fuel consumption values are sourced from Natural Resources Canada
-1 litre of gasoline emits 2.44kg CO2e NOTE: diesel emits 2.64 kg per litre. This is HIGHER than gasoline
-1 kWh produced by 100% Coal emits 0.909kg of CO2e
-1kWh produced by 100% Natural Gas emits 0.465kg of CO2e
-1kWh produced by 100% Renewables emits 0.000kg of CO2e
-1kWh produced by 100% Biomass emits 1.5kg of CO2e
-1kWh produced by 100% Diesel Generator emits 0.25kg of CO2e

Why did you provide the CO2 emissions of gasoline per litre, and diesel per kWh? Impossible to compare.

The CO2 emissions per litre between gas and diesel are almost identical. In fact, Diesel is higher per litre, and a fraction of a precent lower per unit of energy.

The diesel is being burnt in a conventional internal combustion generator. Which is negligibly more efficient than the gasoline engine in the car. Then there are losses through the generator, then losses through the transmission infrastructure, then inefficiencies through charging and discharging, yet somehow at the end of that, it is many times more efficient than burning it directly in the car?

This is the type of stats that should raise red flags for anyone with an iota of common sense.

[Hamloc]

Why did you provide the CO2 emissions of gasoline per litre, and diesel per kWh? Impossible to compare.

The CO2 emissions per litre between gas and diesel are almost identical. In fact, Diesel is higher per litre, and a fraction of a precent lower per unit of energy.

The diesel is being burnt in a conventional internal combustion generator. Which is negligibly more efficient than the gasoline engine in the car. Then there are losses through the generator, then losses through the transmission infrastructure, then inefficiencies through charging and discharging, yet somehow at the end of that, it is many times more efficient than burning it directly in the car?

This is the type of stats that should raise red flags for anyone with an iota of common sense.

Is a diesel electric locomotive an example of where ICE and electric motors compliment each other. Intuitively it seems more complicated to me to have an electric generator run by a diesel motor which then powers electric drive motors but this has been proven efficient in many of the worlds train locomotives.

[ALBERTAFARMER4]

Why did you provide the CO2 emissions of gasoline per litre, and diesel per kWh? Impossible to compare.

The CO2 emissions per litre between gas and diesel are almost identical. In fact, Diesel is higher per litre, and a fraction of a precent lower per unit of energy.

The diesel is being burnt in a conventional internal combustion generator. Which is negligibly more efficient than the gasoline engine in the car. Then there are losses through the generator, then losses through the transmission infrastructure, then inefficiencies through charging and discharging, yet somehow at the end of that, it is many times more efficient than burning it directly in the car?

This is the type of stats that should raise red flags for anyone with an iota of common sense.

16kWh/100km tesla model 3
6L/100km Vw Jetta
6L x 8.9 kWh = 53.4 kWh/100km

These are highway numbers which favour the ICE because they are more efficient on the highway and EV are more efficient in city driving.

Highway conditions the ICE uses 3.3 times more energy.

Let’s say we are charging the EV with a diesel generator. 16 kWh requires 6.4L of diesel. (0.4L/kwh) So basically a diesel generator is a really bad way to charge an EV. 4 kWh goes in and 1 kWh comes out. 1L of diesel is the equivalent of 10 kWh.
6.4L @ $1.60L = $10.24
16 kWh @ $0.20/kwh = $3.20

So why would you use diesel to power your grid? Remote area with no infrastructure. Field, BC for example runs entirely on a diesel generator.

[Jdhot]

Is it possible that AF4 is a paid professional activist? How can a FARMER have that much time to come up with that much info? IF I am right then the question is who is paying activists like this to stir the pot? Is it possible it is the federal government it is full of activists?
By the way, I have no problem with EV’s or green energy or other new tech. I just don’t want the federal government paying or driving them. Let the free market and their own technological performance drive their adoption.

[ajl]

Yes there are a number of paid social media 'influencers' on this site most of whom I have blocked. They are retired snivil serpents with some sort of ag background. It is hard to imagine that they are so stupid as to promote obvious gubmint lies for free but maybe they are.

[Happytrails]

According to AF4's figures burning a half kilogram of coal produces .9 kg of CO2. Seems farfetched. Me thinks he/her/it is attempting to seed doubt with a blizzard of conflicting data.