No more cheap reliable coal fired generation in AB.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Normally if your paying for something by weight the scale has to be calibrated. I don’t think you would be able to weight the amount your getting carbon taxed on

Well I certainly agree that the entire notion of taxing plant food is ridiculous. The math behind calculating emissions is valid. Basic stoichiometry such as we learned in high school can figure out how much CO2 is released from a certain amount of hydrocarbon being combusted.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

16kWh/100km tesla model 3
6L/100km Vw Jetta
6L x 8.9 kWh = 53.4 kWh/100km

These are highway numbers which favour the ICE because they are more efficient on the highway and EV are more efficient in city driving.

Highway conditions the ICE uses 3.3 times more energy.

Let’s say we are charging the EV with a diesel generator. 16 kWh requires 6.4L of diesel. (0.4L/kwh) So basically a diesel generator is a really bad way to charge an EV. 4 kWh goes in and 1 kWh comes out. 1L of diesel is the equivalent of 10 kWh.
6.4L @ $1.60L = $10.24
16 kWh @ $0.20/kwh = $3.20

So why would you use diesel to power your grid? Remote area with no infrastructure. Field, BC for example runs entirely on a diesel generator.

Thank you for doing the math. We are back on the same page again now. When you take into account the 25% efficiency of converting diesel fuel into electricity, it ends up more expensive than burning the gasoline directly.
Now back to my original premise, that the CO2 numbers you presented for Northwest Territories, are completely out to lunch. As you just pointed out, you have to burn almost the same amount of fuel either way, and as I pointed out, the CO2 emissions per unit of energy between Diesel and gasoline are essentially the same, then there's no possible way that a primarily diesel fuel powered grid has seven and a half times less CO2 emissions than a gasoline powered car.
Yet this information is apparently on a government of Canada website?
It is being promoted by a very enthusiastic supporter of electric vehicles without question.
Almost makes me wonder what other questionable math is being used to justify the supposed energy transition.

[ALBERTAFARMER4]

Thank you for doing the math. We are back on the same page again now. When you take into account the 25% efficiency of converting diesel fuel into electricity, it ends up more expensive than burning the gasoline directly.
Now back to my original premise, that the CO2 numbers you presented for Northwest Territories, are completely out to lunch. As you just pointed out, you have to burn almost the same amount of fuel either way, and as I pointed out, the CO2 emissions per unit of energy between Diesel and gasoline are essentially the same, then there's no possible way that a primarily diesel fuel powered grid has seven and a half times less CO2 emissions than a gasoline powered car.
Yet this information is apparently on a government of Canada website?
It is being promoted by a very enthusiastic supporter of electric vehicles without question.
Almost makes me wonder what other questionable math is being used to justify the supposed energy transition.

Well I just used numbers on google but calculating generator emissions has a lot of variables because it depends on how loaded the generator is. I do agree that using a diesel generator to power EV is idiotic. Now as far as the co2 numbers for NWT I'm actually having a hard time figuring out what their grid mix is but this is the most recent one I could find....

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Well I just used numbers on google but calculating generator emissions has a lot of variables because it depends on how loaded the generator is. I do agree that using a diesel generator to power EV is idiotic. Now as far as the co2 numbers for NWT I'm actually having a hard time figuring out what their grid mix is but this is the most recent one I could find....

[ATTACH]10441[/ATTACH]

Well that chart completely contradicts their chart you posted earlier in this same thread which indicated 57% of their electricity comes from diesel fuel.
It's almost as if you can't believe everything you read on the internet. Or that 95% of all statistics are made up...
Either way, if folks wanting to push renewable energy and electric vehicles can't even agree on what our current electricity mix is, or what the CO2 footprint is, how much Faith does that give you in their Grand plans to replace that energy with something else completely?

[shtferbrains]

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics"

[shtferbrains]

How many KW to replace the fossil fuels the ICE use in North America?
S/B a simple 2 number calculation for anyone with a basic understanding of physics?
That never included me.

Nobody took a stab at this?
How many renewable power kilowatts do we need to replace the total amount of fossil fuel we currently consume in North America? 24hrs a day with no brown out risk.
To meet the current mandates?

[jazz]

Nobody took a stab at this??

There is no use arguing tesla cult members.

The logic for EV falls off way before a single KW is ever even generated. Its blown to pieces after the 500,000T of earth over burden is removed by FF to create a single Tesla that will have its battery in the landfill inside of 5 yrs.

Oil will be sent to $500 a bbl by this cult. I am invested heavily in their ignorance and foolishness.

[jazz]

This graph explains it all.

In over 200 yrs, no single source of energy has ever been displaced or replaced by any other. We have simply added on to the energy mix we already had. With the population growth we have had and now 2B more people to be born in the next 20 yrs and 2B people demanding to exit poverty, this will not change.

There is no way renewables will ever replace anything. Period, full stop.

[ALBERTAFARMER4]

We've gone from "EV's will never work in Canada because they're too expensive/range anxiety/cold" to "here is a remote village in NWT that uses diesel generators so that's why EV's are a failure."

[AlbertaFarmer5]

We've gone from "EV's will never work in Canada because they're too expensive/range anxiety/cold" to "here is a remote village in NWT that uses diesel generators so that's why EV's are a failure."

I assume you are responding to me. I've never made any of those claims, I readily acknowledge the benefits and efficiencies of an electric vehicle, even in spite of the limitations of our cold climate.
I'm calling into question the patently false statistics you presented here regarding the CO2 emissions from a diesel fuel powered grid versus a gasoline powered car. And you have gone to Great lengths to avoid acknowledging that obvious error.
This may be a genuine one-off mistake. But for me, it's called into question all of the supposed statistics and settled science being used to justify overthrowing our current functional energy infrastructure for the sake of reducing the amount of plant food we emit.
Do you care to address the supposed 7 and 1/2 times less CO2 from an EV in Northwest Territories versus a gasoline car?

[ALBERTAFARMER4]

I assume you are responding to me. I've never made any of those claims, I readily acknowledge the benefits and efficiencies of an electric vehicle, even in spite of the limitations of our cold climate.
I'm calling into question the patently false statistics you presented here regarding the CO2 emissions from a diesel fuel powered grid versus a gasoline powered car. And you have gone to Great lengths to avoid acknowledging that obvious error.
This may be a genuine one-off mistake. But for me, it's called into question all of the supposed statistics and settled science being used to justify overthrowing our current functional energy infrastructure for the sake of reducing the amount of plant food we emit.
Do you care to address the supposed 7 and 1/2 times less CO2 from an EV in Northwest Territories versus a gasoline car?

It appears to be a mistake in the website I used. I emailed them about it but you can look on the site for yourself if you want.

http://www.albertaev.ca/why-electric/

If you select Alberta it uses a live snapshot of the grid whereas other provinces it just uses their historical grid info.

I showed my math and you're right NWT EV's are not very clean if you're using diesel generation. Any time you use an ICE you will be getting very poor efficiency. Statistically we are talking about a tiny slice of the Canadian population that lives off an electrical grid primarily powered by diesel.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

It appears to be a mistake in the website I used. I emailed them about it but you can look on the site for yourself if you want.

http://www.albertaev.ca/why-electric/

If you select Alberta it uses a live snapshot of the grid whereas other provinces it just uses their historical grid info.

I showed my math and you're right NWT EV's are not very clean if you're using diesel generation. Any time you use an ICE you will be getting very poor efficiency. Statistically we are talking about a tiny slice of the Canadian population that lives off an electrical grid primarily powered by diesel.

Thanks. And we both agree that this example is not representative of anything relevant to most of the population.

What is relevant, is that people want to believe something so badly, that they allow their confirmation bias to blind them to such a glaringly obvious false statistic such as this. You specifically chose the example of NWT because it is the worst case scenario, then proceeded to agree that it was still many times more efficient. Then continue to defend the claim when I pointed it out, trying various ways to justify it as true.

This isn't to pick on you, but the unwillingness of so many of us to question patently unbelievable "facts" when they support our position.