killing an established hay stand..question.

[Sheepwheat]

I did a stand a few years back that was hay since I was a kid. I estimate around 30 years. It is my most mellow, most fertile land I have, despite it being my second lowest assessed. And the smell. Amazing. Thirty years of haying and grazing.

The land I have no tilled for similar years is better than it was before quitting tillage,, but it doesn’t hold a candle to the old hayland for natural fertility and tilth. Seeded a 20 acre strip of oats when I had a seeding issue with canary seed one time. Preceding crop was canola. I put zero fertilizer on, as i reseeded in June and had used the seed placed blend, and ditched the nh3 tank. Thought I would greenfeed it so didn’t care much. Didn’t even spray it. Yielded well over 125 with no inputs other than the seed.

Forages have a fit. It is the reason i wonder about short term organic crops, mixed in with a hay rotation.

I’m surprised some of you have fertility issues after forages. I guess I can see moisture limitations where it rains less. And yes, it can be rough, and it takes a few years to get smoothed out again, but the reward sure looks to be worthwhile.

[foragefarmer]

We always apply glyphosate in the fall it does a better job. Then in the spring we hit it again.

If there is quack grass, glyphosate will not totally kill it in the spring without ripping the roots.

But, if your putting in an annual crop, spring application will kill a lot and set everything else back for the crop to get a good jump.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

I’m surprised some of you have fertility issues after forages. I guess I can see moisture limitations where it rains less. And yes, it can be rough, and it takes a few years to get smoothed out again, but the reward sure looks to be worthwhile.

I should clarify. A healthy, well fertilized Young haystand has very few issues with fertility, except for the nitrogen tie up from breaking down the sod.

What I am almost always dealing with is newly purchased or newly rented land which has been in Grass without fertilizer forever, and is mostly growing wild strawberries and the odd dandelion. When I used to plow it bring up lots of old organic matter to mineralize, it worked well. But with no till into Barren, almost sterile soil, it takes a lot of fertilizer.

The biggest difference being that we are dealing with great wooded clay which is chronically short of organic matter and mineral nutrients compared to real soil.

[shtferbrains]

In old hay stands the hardest things I find to kill are dandelion and Brome grass.
The 720 gly plus express was best I saw is you arn't growing canola.
Spring spraying will leave the seedbed powder dry as you have to let the hay get to the 5 leaf or results will be poor.

You can't spray a little wee plant and expect to tranlocate enough to kill a four foot root.

[Guest]

720 grams of active glyphosate.

Yes but add express pro if wheat or barley
If oats add express for those yellow flowers

[Sodbuster]

For best results fall spraying is your optimal time to get hay stands with quack grass, dandelions and other weeds and adding express would give it a lot more kick.

[bjf2]

The only thing that kills grass is steel. Spike twice disk once cullavate with harrows and if you have a harrowpacker bar they work great for breaking down sod.Pray it dosent blow .Its smooth as a baby but no more ruff stuff.

[TOM4CWB]

For best results fall spraying is your optimal time to get hay stands with quack grass, dandelions and other weeds and adding express would give it a lot more kick.

Cross seeded two directions [1870 conservapac with good spring rains] shallow seedbed 3" Deep band; with a good hybred RR Canola, use Eclipse [Glyph/Lontrel] to kill the Alfalfa and thistles/etc.
Has worked out well for me, once it canopies over the sod breaks down well under the Canola canopy, needs 120lbN NH3 [60lbN each pass] works best. Top dressing with 21-0-0 fines 150lb/ac kicks up the sod breakdown on the zero till. After 3 years [Canola-Wht-peas landroll each yr] the sod is gone and very mellow ground!!!

Cheers