killing an established hay stand..question.

[bucket]

How or what is the best way to kill a hay stand of grass , alfalfa , vetch in the spring?

Really curious as to how to do it in the spring?

And what to expect for a crop when there has not been over 4 inches of rain since june 2021?

Comments appreciated.

[Old Cowzilla]

Roundup at a heavy rate ( if not GMO ) plus a broadleaf sprayed after a few really, really warm days. Alfalfa pretty tough and more plants will show up after seeding. The plow would be your friend dare I say.

[jamesb]

I have seen lots of guys have some success by spraying out hay land with a heavy rate of roundup and 24d type mix and then direct seed canola or flax into the ground. As one guy put to me they get a half crop at best where they would have got nothing if it was summer fallowed. By the second crop the yield was closer to a "normal" yield. For me I am more old school on this as after spraying I work it up with an old cultivator with spikes or an Rome disk . Flamans rent disks too. Get rid of the badger holes. It for sure costs money to fallow these days but by fall there is a nice seed bed and we would plant fall rye. No nitrogen and just a little phos.

[Sodbuster]

720 grams of active glyphosate.

[WiltonRanch]

Eclipse with another litre of vantage plus added in or 720 g glyphosate and clorypalid. Clorypalid(Lontrel) twists alfalfa upside down and doesn’t inhibit efficacy of glyphosate like 24-d

[Sheepwheat]

Eclipse with another litre of vantage plus added in or 720 g glyphosate and clorypalid. Clorypalid(Lontrel) twists alfalfa upside down and doesn’t inhibit efficacy of glyphosate like 24-d

I spray it out with 720 of glyphosate and a litre of 24-d. The fall before. Tuns it brown like the Sahara.

[poorboy]

I have been trying to kill a hay stand for the last 2 falls and springs and nothing is working real well in the chemical program for eradication. Seems way too much of the grass and alfalfa are dormant with the drought.

Knowing what I know now, I would disk it, heavy harrow it in a week and seed it after a good rain to a cereal. Decomposing root balls are pulling up in second year no till seeding and still not making a great seed bed.

[WiltonRanch]

I spray it out with 720 of glyphosate and a litre of 24-d. The fall before. Tuns it brown like the Sahara.

That is the ideal time to do it and phenoxy’s have residual following spring. If you’re planning on doing it in spring the lontrel is safe for canola.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

I use up to 2 L of glyphosate. sets back the alfalfa enough to get crop established. Then use clopyralid in crop when the alfalfa recovers.

I almost always use Invigor canola direct seeded into sod. The RR's just don't seem to have the "vigor" to thrive in challenging conditions. I find the first crops potential is limited only by fertility. I can get as good a crop as seeding into stubble, if I feed it enough. That may not be cost effective this year. In fact, I am working a bunch of sod up this year for the first time in years.

[Mufferaw]

Florasulam and Roundup. I wouldn't worry much about the alfalfa, I'm guessing there is not a bunch there to begin with. It will be set back to get the crop established and you can better deal with it in the fall. Assuming you want to seed this spring - breaking and discing will leave you with sod lumps or very dried out soil.

I believe you have cattle. Put barley or oats in - that way it can always be cut for greenfeed if there is a bunch of regrowth. Greenfeed will always give you a bigger window in the fall for tillage, spraying, etc.

In the fall of 2021 I broke a 20 acre sand hill that was in hay for 15 years - didn't get any rain that fall, just snow cover. Seeded last spring planted oats with 2" of rainfall - the cows grazed it wasn't worth cutting.

Lots of variables to consider. How long has the forage stand been in place? Forage mix? How much rain this summer?

[Robertbarlage]

If ya don’t have rocks one pass heaven gly , than this

[WiltonRanch]

I use up to 2 L of glyphosate. sets back the alfalfa enough to get crop established. Then use clopyralid in crop when the alfalfa recovers.

I almost always use Invigor canola direct seeded into sod. The RR's just don't seem to have the "vigor" to thrive in challenging conditions. I find the first crops potential is limited only by fertility. I can get as good a crop as seeding into stubble, if I feed it enough. That may not be cost effective this year. In fact, I am working a bunch of sod up this year for the first time in years.

I spray it in August with at least 720 grams and some lontrel then work it two weeks later. Last year was first time I tried seeding into sod. It worked really well. However, any grass stands we terminate are so rough tillage is necessary. Like you said fertility is the only limiting factor cause perennials pull most of their moisture below where annuals gets theirs.

[Sheepwheat]

I did a stand a few years back that was hay since I was a kid. I estimate around 30 years. It is my most mellow, most fertile land I have, despite it being my second lowest assessed. And the smell. Amazing. Thirty years of haying and grazing.

The land I have no tilled for similar years is better than it was before quitting tillage,, but it doesn’t hold a candle to the old hayland for natural fertility and tilth. Seeded a 20 acre strip of oats when I had a seeding issue with canary seed one time. Preceding crop was canola. I put zero fertilizer on, as i reseeded in June and had used the seed placed blend, and ditched the nh3 tank. Thought I would greenfeed it so didn’t care much. Didn’t even spray it. Yielded well over 125 with no inputs other than the seed.

Forages have a fit. It is the reason i wonder about short term organic crops, mixed in with a hay rotation.

I’m surprised some of you have fertility issues after forages. I guess I can see moisture limitations where it rains less. And yes, it can be rough, and it takes a few years to get smoothed out again, but the reward sure looks to be worthwhile.

[foragefarmer]

We always apply glyphosate in the fall it does a better job. Then in the spring we hit it again.

If there is quack grass, glyphosate will not totally kill it in the spring without ripping the roots.

But, if your putting in an annual crop, spring application will kill a lot and set everything else back for the crop to get a good jump.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

I’m surprised some of you have fertility issues after forages. I guess I can see moisture limitations where it rains less. And yes, it can be rough, and it takes a few years to get smoothed out again, but the reward sure looks to be worthwhile.

I should clarify. A healthy, well fertilized Young haystand has very few issues with fertility, except for the nitrogen tie up from breaking down the sod.

What I am almost always dealing with is newly purchased or newly rented land which has been in Grass without fertilizer forever, and is mostly growing wild strawberries and the odd dandelion. When I used to plow it bring up lots of old organic matter to mineralize, it worked well. But with no till into Barren, almost sterile soil, it takes a lot of fertilizer.

The biggest difference being that we are dealing with great wooded clay which is chronically short of organic matter and mineral nutrients compared to real soil.