How we could actually cut fertilizer and not cut production.

[wmoebis]

Western Canada has elected conservatives all along. I don't think that's going to help either.

The drought last year received no standing at the ag committee in Ottawa while the conservatives put the PEI potato on the agenda along with the BC floods.

Both deserved attention but why were farmers and ranchers ignored?

The feds are spending big $ on irrigation and still pay 60% of crop insurance premium for farmers. No other industry gets ins premiums paid for them and a guarantee that farmers will be paid if crop loss. Must be worth something.

[WiltonRanch]

Guys dropping out of cow/calf operation not sure how you figure manure can be a substitute for fertilizer on the vast acres of crop production in western Canada.

And sure as shit guys who have never had livestock are not going to do 180's now, in fact it's the exact opposite.

Not to mention cow/calf guys are working their asses off just trying to survive.

Oh I forgot weren't you promoting that Gabe horseshit last fall.

Being that you are a “forage farmer” you would see firsthand the cow business has been shit for years. With mandated reductions in nitrogen use it is worrisome the cattle industry will be the baby thrown out with the bath water because of less grain grown. I seen cows were going nowhere 6 years ago and halved the herd. I do not regret it. Talking with a friend who is more gung ho about cows and he’s talking about halving his herd because it’s a money hemorrhage. Even $1800 steers this fall isn’t enough to wipe the stink off this industry.

[bobofthenorth]

Products like this have been around for a while , some used to call them snake oil . We’ll time will tell but this will the next level that of fertilizer reduction if they perform.

You're absolutely right - technology may save us from governmental malice. This is not the only example of this type of technology that is under development. Nitrogen fixing cereals would absolutely reduce "emissions" from the evil fertilizer industry. I guarantee you though that Marie Clod Bobo knows exactly nothing about this technology and Skippy knows even less.

[WiltonRanch]

You're absolutely right - technology may save us from governmental malice. This is not the only example of this type of technology that is under development. Nitrogen fixing cereals would absolutely reduce "emissions" from the evil fertilizer industry. I guarantee you though that Marie Clod Bobo knows exactly nothing about this technology and Skippy knows even less.

Was a slap in the face to ag when shithead put this in as our ag minister. How could you take anything out it’s mouth as worth listening to or believing. It’s like armoured keep as the energy minister.

[edl]

Products like this have been around for a while , some used to call them snake oil . We’ll time will tell but this will the next level that of fertilizer reduction if they perform.

have tried it and its snake oil

[TSIPP]

The neighbour had his tractor exhaust piped into his air drill, he paid a small fortune for it and he bragged it up, a few years later he couldn’t look me in the eye when he asked me if I wanted to buy it.

It’s probably still in his junk pile.

[furrowtickler]

have tried it and its snake oil

There is several trials here , nothing noticeable so far , will see what the grain cart says .
There are many more coming , they will make it work eventually.

[foragefarmer]

I think you have me confused with someone else.
And nowhere do I say that I expect the average grain farmer to suddenly want to become a cowboy. But there are a lot of landless cowboys begging for an opportunity.
Unite them with their grain farmer neighbors under a mutually beneficial arrangement, that makes use of the byproducts and crop failures and land unfit for cultivation. While simultaneously increasing the productivity of the cropland at almost no cost to either party. I had to thread on this very topic a while back. Our beef sector is not competitive with countries without winter time. We either give up on the beef sector or we find a way to make it competitive. Buying expensive land and expensive tractors and equipment and facilities and fertilizer and trucking feed all over the country and feeding them eight months of the year, isn't working. Especially when there are so many opportunities for synergies between the two industries.

Do you have any constructive suggestions on this topic? It is going to be forced on us whether we like it or not.

What you are asking for is history to repeat it's self when there was a family farm on every second quarter with cattle. Regrettably those days are gone no matter how much you romanticize about it.

Why would cattle guys who are struggling to make a honest living stay in an industry just to ensure you can spread their manure on your grain land.

There's my contribution the honest truth, cow calf family farms are sadly dying a very unfortunate slow financial death and won't be around to provide you any shit.

[dfarms11]

Nothing like just bashing an idea for trying to think outside the box. Not one person could listen to the O.P and play along. I'm quite certain he knows how life actually is, just trying to come up with some new constructive ideas to help our industry. Right or wrong, we need to start a conversation ourselves and figure things out for ourselves. Rest assured the government isn't gonna get it right!

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Sorry to have offended you forage. Not sure why you are so hung up on this one issue.


We both agree that there is no profit in cattle the way it is done now.

And I'm saying one of the easiest ways to cut fertilizer inputs is to keep the grain or hay etc. close to home, instead of exporting those nutrients. Beef Cattle aren't the only livestock. Pigs, chickens, dairy, turkeys, sheep, goats etc. Right now we export feed grain, hay, silage even to the middle east, China, Japan, Korea, etc. They don't return the nutrients,. Feeding those livestock here and exporting the finished product is the easiest loophole to close.

We have cattle here, I spread my own manure, and have arrangements to get manure from many of my neighbors too. I can't count how many aspiring cattlemen I have as neighbors who can't compete for land, can't justify the cost of the feed, but they are working their tails off on farm and off farm to subsidize their dreams. I'm saying don't compete, work together. In my travels in western Canada, there is a huge amount of unused land within every grain farm that could be pasture, or hay. There is also huge amounts of chaff, straw, off grade grain, stubble, weeds, hailed/frozen/droughted/drowned out crops that don't get salvaged, and crop insurance only makes it worse. Cattle farming could actually be profitable if instead of renting or buying expensive pasture, and buying expensive inputs and diesel, and feeding most of the year, they use what is already going to waste. My cows rarely have the luxury of eating hay, let alone alfalfa hay. And they get fed for as little as 4 months of the year. They only get to pasture land that is completely unfit for cultivation. They eat silage from frozen or hailed crops, or greenfeed from hailed crops, or slough hay, or straw and off grade grain, and they graze stubble, they have eaten chaff in years past. When we no longer have cows, I will offer this same arrangement to anyone who is willing.

If we really want farmers to go organic, then integrating livestock is a necessity. Accepting that not everyone wants to be married to cows 24/7, partnering with someone who does could be a good fit.

I have said in the past that we started down the road to going organic. But this grey wooded soil is naturally devoid of all nutrients, it can't be mined for very long at all, so most of the production would need to go through a cow to keep the soil productive. I worked out how many cattle I would need to make efficient use of cover crops and how much hay would need to be in the rotation, and came up with a number of cows that was not at all appealling. Profitable, yes, but it would require multiple full time jobs to manage.