Insanity

[agstar77]

I think sawfly needs some assistance with definitions.

Social programs are different than socialism. Social programs are a wealth distribution that we can all benefit from, such as health care, or welfare or EI etc.

Socialism is robbing from one group who is more productive and handing it out to others who arent, example Carbon tax.

And marxism is taking from one group to give to another and then destroying their livelihood in the process ex climate change or covid.

You mean Marx was into climate change and covid. Wow really ahead of his time L.O.l. Any more dumb statements?

[blueversi]

You mean Marx was into climate change and covid. Wow really ahead of his time L.O.l. Any more dumb statements?

Ex is short for example just so you know. He was giving examples of current Marxist pet projects there IQ77.

[jazz]

You mean Marx was into climate change and covid. Wow really ahead of his time L.O.l. Any more dumb statements?

Guess I have to give a more relevant example for you. How about CWB and the NEP. Close to Marxism as you can get.

Marxists are always looking for some thing to bring in their centrally planned utopia. That’s why they drool over climate change and covid mandates.

[sawfly1]

Tom . I do not know what brought on the sermon. And just to let you know , that kind of stuff is wasted on me anyway.
Not one of the flock , so to speak.
I got you had no comeback as soon as you went there.

And jazz , you can't change the definition of things just to suit your political stripe.
Universal health care is socialist.
Ask any American

It's like the American farm programs.
Talk about a redistribution of other people's money. But it us only socialism if someone else benefits.

[jensend]

As soon as you have public roads or fire departments or police forces or a publicly funded military you have socialism. It's called a mixed economy. Try to find a country that doesn't have a mixed economy.

[WiltonRanch]

Tom . I do not know what brought on the sermon. And just to let you know , that kind of stuff is wasted on me anyway.
Not one of the flock , so to speak.
I got you had no comeback as soon as you went there.

And jazz , you can't change the definition of things just to suit your political stripe.
Universal health care is socialist.
Ask any American

It's like the American farm programs.
Talk about a redistribution of other people's money. But it us only socialism if someone else benefits.

You bet social programs and money redistribution are socialist. Heck all out social programs were resultant of efforts by the Progressives and later ccf. It is a balancing act though as to how much involvement the government should have in our economy and daily lives before it is detrimental as being laissez faire. We can all agree we wouldn’t want it like the 1800’s but big government or big businesses calling all the shots is not good. What seems apparent now is both are calling the shots at the same time. Entrepreneurship and an environment which curries opportunities for small businesses and the individual for upward mobility is what makes a democracy whole. Once you create an environment that quashes that spirit your country is in decline.

[furrowtickler]

You bet social programs and money redistribution are socialist. Heck all out social programs were resultant of efforts by the Progressives and later ccf. It is a balancing act though as to how much involvement the government should have in our economy and daily lives before it is detrimental as being laissez faire. We can all agree we wouldn’t want it like the 1800’s but big government or big businesses calling all the shots is not good. What seems apparent now is both are calling the shots at the same time. Entrepreneurship and an environment which curries opportunities for small businesses and the individual for upward mobility is what makes a democracy whole. Once you create an environment that quashes that spirit your country is in decline.

Very well said and that’s the path we are on currently and fast

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Very well said and that’s the path we are on currently and fast

Not that anyone actually listens to me, but one conundrum I think about a lot, is what economic system and taxation system would work best to eliminate the above mentioned problems.
To somehow ensure equality of opportunity, while accepting that equality of outcome is impossible. Something that avoids concentration of wealth down through generations of dynasties, without destroying the incentive of the first end of each successive generation.
Fund social programs that are adequate to keep people from ending up destitute, without destroying the incentive to be productive.
Democratic decision-making, without the inevitable decline into buying votes with other people's money.
A tax structure which encourages entrepreneurship and small businesses without devolving into crony capitalism, and which doesn't unjustly punish those who are exceptionally ambitious and innovative and grow into large businesses.

Making political terms long enough that they can actually Bear the fruit of their positive policy choices, instead of being punished for sound economic policies which result in short-term pain for long-term gain. Without simultaneously resulting in the inevitable corruption from being in office too long.

The ability to use debt and interest rates and taxes as a tool to encourage Capital to go into productive assets, and discourage it from creating bubbles in unproductive assets.
Somehow encourage personal responsibility at all levels. But still have the safety net to catch those who fall through the cracks.

On the economic end, I think most of those goals could be accomplished with targeted flexible consumption based taxes along with estate taxes and inheritance taxes as opposed to blanket income taxes and corporate taxes. And otherwise getting government out of the business of business.

Fixing the political system of course, is not nearly as simple.

[jazz]

As soon as you have public roads or fire departments or police forces or a publicly funded military you have socialism. It's called a mixed economy. Try to find a country that doesn't have a mixed economy.

My roads and rail arent socialist. They have universal access so anyone can use them. Thats a social program.

Fire, police and military protect all canadians rich and poor.

But did every person in Canada get the same climate action rebate.

See the difference. Govt picking winners and punishing losers with our tax money and regulations. Thats some straight up marxist BS.

[dmlfarmer]

You bet social programs and money redistribution are socialist. Heck all out social programs were resultant of efforts by the Progressives and later ccf. It is a balancing act though as to how much involvement the government should have in our economy and daily lives before it is detrimental as being laissez faire. We can all agree we wouldn’t want it like the 1800’s but big government or big businesses calling all the shots is not good. What seems apparent now is both are calling the shots at the same time. Entrepreneurship and an environment which curries opportunities for small businesses and the individual for upward mobility is what makes a democracy whole. Once you create an environment that quashes that spirit your country is in decline.

Big business and government are not competing for control, they are collaborating! Who has the governments ear, the average Canadian or big business and their paid lobbyists? And history shows right wing governments are just as bad at catering to big business as left wing governments if not more so