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Any benefit to an older farmer if they finance a younger guy on their equipment?

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    Any benefit to an older farmer if they finance a younger guy on their equipment?

    Got a call from a family friend who knows that I sell a fair bit of oats to people in tote bags. Said to come over and pick up some empty bags he had from some product he bought in the spring. Low and behold, he had empty bags for me, but also used the opportunity to ask if I wanted to rent more land.

    Started out by saying that he had one more year left to farm, and then he would be packing it in. Asked if I would want to take on his rented land this year, and then his own land the following year. I was awe struck, and kinda froze for a bit. A befuddled "Of course" came out of my mouth after a small pause, but I couldn't help but think how I was going to manage this. This would be adding 50% to our grain land base.

    It ended that he would put in a good word with his landlords, and that his favorite time of year is seeding and watching the crops come up. He was hinting that he would like to come and help run the equipment spring and fall. This settled my fears, as it would help immensely to have a seasoned veteran at the helm of a seeder in spring, and a combine in the fall.

    After having the time to think about it for a few evenings, I thought back to our conversation and he had mentioned how he was working on some of his equipment to get it ready for his auction after this year, and I started thinking. Is an auction really necessary? I could use the extra equipment to take on that much extra land, and he wouldn't have to go through the stress of an auction.

    My question is, would he benefit by financing me on his line of equipment? Spread it out over a few years instead of one lump sum? Or maybe he could lease it to me instead to gain a tax advantage? Just spit balling, trying to come up with a situation advantageous for both of us. What I can come up with is that he would still have the same amount of recapture whether he had an auction, or financed me over a period of time. Am I right in thinking that there is no benefit to him to finance me?

    Another thing bothering me is a good friend separate from all of this had made it known to me if this guy was to retire, he would like to take on the land he was renting. I don't want to lose a friend over a land deal. But when someone says they are going to pull some strings to get you some land, it is very hard to pass up. What would you do in that situation?

    #2
    Cat is out of the bag now! This guy and his land lord will be swamped with calls and visitors now. Unless nobody knows who you are. LOL

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by wmoebis View Post
      Cat is out of the bag now! This guy and his land lord will be swamped with calls and visitors now. Unless nobody knows who you are. LOL
      I highly doubt anybody can put the what and the who together from the info provided.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by flea beetle View Post
        I highly doubt anybody can put the what and the who together from the info provided.
        Integrity of this person is the number one issue.

        A legal written agreement is important… with opt out clauses for both sides….

        70% of these good neighbor arrangements work out for the good of both parties…

        The 30% that blow up are very difficult and gut wrenching.

        Keep the contact time short, wind it up in a maximum of 3 years… with you having the option to wind it up early with no penalty…

        Lease to purchase on equipment gives both parties good protection…

        Blessings and Salutations

        Comment


          #5
          You buying all at once would be the same tax wise as an auction sale.

          However buying only a few items each year would spread the taxes out and possibly be in lower tax brackets at the time.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by TOM4CWB View Post
            Integrity of this person is the number one issue.

            A legal written agreement is important… with opt out clauses for both sides….

            70% of these good neighbor arrangements work out for the good of both parties…

            The 30% that blow up are very difficult and gut wrenching.

            Keep the contact time short, wind it up in a maximum of 3 years… with you having the option to wind it up early with no penalty…

            Lease to purchase on equipment gives both parties good protection…

            Blessings and Salutations
            Thank you for the info. It is very much appreciated.

            The integrity of this man need not be questioned. He always carries himself in a very dignified and respectful manner, and has never steered me wrong. I trust him more than 99 percent of the people in my life.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by poorboy View Post
              You buying all at once would be the same tax wise as an auction sale.

              However buying only a few items each year would spread the taxes out and possibly be in lower tax brackets at the time.
              Yes I thought about that. Would he be worse off though by carrying the equipment to a later date, because his CCA would be lowered on the equipment he doesn't sell right away? Or do you think the savings by selling slowly would outweigh the loss of CCA room?

              I guess by using the CCA, it would lower his overall tax bill at the time, and then he would only be taxed on half the gain later on. Am I thinking right on that one?
              Last edited by flea beetle; Nov 27, 2022, 23:50.

              Comment


                #8
                Sounds like a question for his accountant.

                Often when retiring there is lots of income and low expenses while the grain gets sold.

                Usually machinery sales get delayed a year or 2.

                If you need machinery soon then go talk to him, if not give it a little time to sink in for both of you and then talk to him.

                Comment


                  #9
                  He came to you on his own.
                  Not your friend for reasons of his own.
                  You will not see one of those acres ever again if you do nothing.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    He would get top $ for his steel now maybe not 2 years from now. Farm company or not would make a difference only his accountant can answer. Auctions pretty easy now with live internet and nobody in yard on the sale day to deal with.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by flea beetle View Post
                      Got a call from a family friend who knows that I sell a fair bit of oats to people in tote bags. Said to come over and pick up some empty bags he had from some product he bought in the spring. Low and behold, he had empty bags for me, but also used the opportunity to ask if I wanted to rent more land.

                      Started out by saying that he had one more year left to farm, and then he would be packing it in. Asked if I would want to take on his rented land this year, and then his own land the following year. I was awe struck, and kinda froze for a bit. A befuddled "Of course" came out of my mouth after a small pause, but I couldn't help but think how I was going to manage this. This would be adding 50% to our grain land base.

                      It ended that he would put in a good word with his landlords, and that his favorite time of year is seeding and watching the crops come up. He was hinting that he would like to come and help run the equipment spring and fall. This settled my fears, as it would help immensely to have a seasoned veteran at the helm of a seeder in spring, and a combine in the fall.

                      After having the time to think about it for a few evenings, I thought back to our conversation and he had mentioned how he was working on some of his equipment to get it ready for his auction after this year, and I started thinking. Is an auction really necessary? I could use the extra equipment to take on that much extra land, and he wouldn't have to go through the stress of an auction.

                      My question is, would he benefit by financing me on his line of equipment? Spread it out over a few years instead of one lump sum? Or maybe he could lease it to me instead to gain a tax advantage? Just spit balling, trying to come up with a situation advantageous for both of us. What I can come up with is that he would still have the same amount of recapture whether he had an auction, or financed me over a period of time. Am I right in thinking that there is no benefit to him to finance me?

                      Another thing bothering me is a good friend separate from all of this had made it known to me if this guy was to retire, he would like to take on the land he was renting. I don't want to lose a friend over a land deal. But when someone says they are going to pull some strings to get you some land, it is very hard to pass up. What would you do in that situation?
                      The renting to own the machinery is a good idea that will benefit both of you. He can spread the value over more years for tax purposes and will also get away from having auction sale commissions. You have a expense deduction. You will have to ask yourself if you can handle all that extra land? If not then let your friend take some. Be aware that you may have some land greedy neighbours that will get wind of this. The land that he rents, he has no control over so you may only be renting his. I bet his landlords will be putting it up for tenders. I assume you are a young farmer so he wants to help you out.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        flea, you have heard about the $150 an acre being tossed around.

                        Does it pencil.

                        And most of all, a 50% increase in acres would say you need some more bodies.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Instead of bouncing ideas off of the internet, it might be better to have coffee with him and discuss options. You make him sound like a reasonable person and he might come up with a solution that is even better than what you come up with. Also, equipment maybe not even an option and sheds a whole new light on takeover.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Are you paying ritchies prices for his equipment?

                            Comment


                              #15
                              First off, I have farmed for thirty years, and hoped and waited for an opportunity like this. Even a single quarter would here or there, would have been nice. Never came. So good for you!

                              I wonder if he would be open to the idea of easing out of farming rather than cold Turkey. What I’m thinking is farm his land together. Sounds like he is a grand guy, maybe it would benefit you both and solve some of the machinery issues and manpower issues if you shared his land for a few years?

                              Less for you to bite off all at once. Give you a chance to work his machinery into your fleet over time.

                              What an opportunity. Good luck!

                              Comment

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