The Fertilizer Files

[Hamloc]

Tnc.news posted an interesting 3 part series called “The Fertilizer Files”. Based on documents obtained from the federal government. It shows how the Feds are well aware their desired cuts in fertilizer use will lower output and income. It is a good read!!

[ry0972]

Tnc.news posted an interesting 3 part series called “The Fertilizer Files”. Based on documents obtained from the federal government. It shows how the Feds are well aware their desired cuts in fertilizer use will lower output and income. It is a good read!!

Anyone in Ag that supports "regenerative" or "sustainable" ag, or any of the other enviro buzzwords or signs up for programs like the viterra declaration for canola to europe are being used by the feds to show there in FULL support for their ideals!!
Our grower groups need to grow a backbone and stand up for modern agriculture or the liberals/woke/wef/un will have us back to sustenance farming by 2030!!!

Pull ALL checkoff $$$ from all farm groups and make sure they know why!!
All farm forums should have a post on the main page with all the current checkoff refund forms posted and deadlines for getting them back.

[Sheepwheat]

Anyone in Ag that supports "regenerative" or "sustainable" ag, or any of the other enviro buzzwords or signs up for programs like the viterra declaration for canola to europe are being used by the feds to show there in FULL support for their ideals!!
Our grower groups need to grow a backbone and stand up for modern agriculture or the liberals/woke/wef/un will have us back to sustenance farming by 2030!!!

Pull ALL checkoff $$$ from all farm groups and make sure they know why!!
All farm forums should have a post on the main page with all the current checkoff refund forms posted and deadlines for getting them back.

I get what you are saying, but when you are direct marketing farm produce, like it or not, consumers want to know how your product was produced. Some questions we get are quite funny, but some are truly thought provoking!

I am attempting a “regen”ag experiment this year and giving it a fair decade long trial to see if the likes of Gabe Brown are true. There is much more to our soils and how they are built than meets the eye IMO.

As I said I will keep y’all posted on results. But it has nothing to do with the government in my case. I just like experimenting and seeing results!

Just throwing this out there is all.

[WiltonRanch]

Can’t get something from nothing. I’m all for making the most efficient use of my inputs and resources at hand. Still need to add what is exported from the soil in order for it to keep growing. Gabe Brown type regen if you can make it work would be great but in reality he’s mining the soil but at a lot slower rate than removing a crop. Ultimately you need to close the loop at the other end and return the nutrients back. Otherwise you’re mining the stuff that doesn’t come from above. Think you can reduce fertilizer needs but you have to like livestock and you need the kind of land like what you and I have which is kind of sketchy depending on it do grow and harvest consistent yields and quality.

[Sheepwheat]

Can’t get something from nothing. I’m all for making the most efficient use of my inputs and resources at hand. Still need to add what is exported from the soil in order for it to keep growing. Gabe Brown type regen if you can make it work would be great but in reality he’s mining the soil but at a lot slower rate than removing a crop. Ultimately you need to close the loop at the other end and return the nutrients back. Otherwise you’re mining the stuff that doesn’t come from above. Think you can reduce fertilizer needs but you have to like livestock and you need the kind of land like what you and I have which is kind of sketchy depending on it do grow and harvest consistent yields and quality.

Gabes, and innumerable other guys, steve Kenyon etc. theory is growing microbes that conventional agriculture kills off.

What was the input before humans? Animals, sunlight, diversity, no bare soil. Our soils are chuck full of minerals and nutrients. But they aren’t available because of no diversity and precious little animal impact.

So that’s the theory.

My plan is to give it a shot. I’ve done a lot of study about this and imho, it makes a lot of sense. Get the root mass of multiple species of plants, get them pumping carbon into the soil at rates beyond natural, get the mychirizae at work with no slicing and dicing, and I can see how it could work.

I will see. I think we have barely tickled the surface of our soils and how they work. I’ve grown enough crops with zero inputs by mistake over the years that rivalled my high input historical nature, to know there has got to be something to it!

Edit to add. I have some excellent land. That idea that excellent land is only good for grain is a fallacy. It also will produce more meat per acre than sketchy land. Guys better start thinking outside the box. Unless one thinks the current model is awesome.

[Sheepwheat]

And no question one has to like stock in the first place. It’s not for everyone. That’s why I started that other thread looking for a company that is actually open minded about this soil thing. Not many if any are, because what we have all been taught is that industrial ag as the only way.

If it does work, and I post soil test results, I highly doubt many would believe me anyway, as the status quo is quite strongly engrained!

Me? I am open minded enough to try. But I too will believe it when i see it, just for the record. Measurable results should happen within a few years tops, if it is all it’s cracked up to be.

If it works, it is the answer to organic farming, that’s for sure.

[WiltonRanch]

Think you have to try it for yourself and adapt it to your conditions. Some of the gurus you mentioned don’t necessarily tell you the whole story nor the problems they have. Biggest thing is don’t forget to feed your cows in the winter. Was kind of a recurring theme with a number of the holistic guys to expect their cows could graze through deep snow and thrive. You weren’t a real holistic rancher unless the spca paid you a visit.

[Sheepwheat]

Think you have to try it for yourself and adapt it to your conditions. Some of the gurus you mentioned don’t necessarily tell you the whole story nor the problems they have. Biggest thing is don’t forget to feed your cows in the winter. Was kind of a recurring theme with a number of the holistic guys to expect their cows could graze through deep snow and thrive. You weren’t a real holistic rancher unless the spca paid you a visit.

???? Haha, I don’t really follow?

Steve Kenyon had the spca come out for cattle that aren’t his own?

[Sheepwheat]

Can’t get something from nothing..

I agree. Funny statement actually when you really think about it.

[WiltonRanch]

???? Haha, I don’t really follow?

Steve Kenyon had the spca come out for cattle that aren’t his own?

I never said that about any specific person. Just speaking of other past operations which went down that path and lectured everyone about ranching their way while cows starved on snowballs. Don’t get me wrong there’s some decent enough holistic operators out there who’ve done a great job cause they’re still going.

[foragefarmer]

I've seen the effect fertilizer has on grass crops regarding seed production and growth when a three foot stripe is missed. Seed production is 50-75% less and growth is 50%.

As for native grasses there is minimal production pertaining to growth and seed production naturally, they love fertilizer.

Before the the prairies were occupied by settlers, prairie fires are what rejuvenated native grasses. The burning opens up the ground so native grasses can send more tillers and the ashes improve the soil's ph and it supplies many trace elements.

Did you ever notice what takes place after a fire goes through the bush?

Besides, the three prairie provinces livestock industry doesn't produce a fraction of the amount of manure to fertilize the acres in production.

Those wanting to go Gabe have at it, didn't we have that discussion on here about a year ago?

[AlbertaFarmer5]

If we were to assume that there exists a sustainable model for ag in our climate and soils, getting there won't happen overnight. Will probably take decade (s). With a large drop in both production and income in the early years. This might be a tolerable situation on owned land, but the short term pain, for long term gain doesn't fly on short term rented land.
How does the current business model adjust to that?

[Sheepwheat]

This conversation sort of reminds me of the nay sayers of zero till back in the day. It won’t work here, too wet. It won’t work because….. fill in the blank.

No scientific debate. Just, it won’t work.

That’s ok. But I believe most are completely missing the point.

And that’s ok. Just seems like the old no till won’t work discussions.

[WiltonRanch]

This conversation sort of reminds me of the nay sayers of zero till back in the day. It won’t work here, too wet. It won’t work because….. fill in the blank.

No scientific debate. Just, it won’t work.

That’s ok. But I believe most are completely missing the point.

And that’s ok. Just seems like the old no till won’t work discussions.

Don’t think we’re saying it won’t work. We’re saying be careful and don’t believe all the claims about it good and bad.

[blackpowder]

We need to differentiate between a sound business practice by a few producers and feeding the 2/3 of the people who can't afford their product.
Where the inputs converted to food come from, ultimately up to those 2/3.