The Fertilizer Files

[foragefarmer]

I've seen the effect fertilizer has on grass crops regarding seed production and growth when a three foot stripe is missed. Seed production is 50-75% less and growth is 50%.

As for native grasses there is minimal production pertaining to growth and seed production naturally, they love fertilizer.

Before the the prairies were occupied by settlers, prairie fires are what rejuvenated native grasses. The burning opens up the ground so native grasses can send more tillers and the ashes improve the soil's ph and it supplies many trace elements.

Did you ever notice what takes place after a fire goes through the bush?

Besides, the three prairie provinces livestock industry doesn't produce a fraction of the amount of manure to fertilize the acres in production.

Those wanting to go Gabe have at it, didn't we have that discussion on here about a year ago?

[AlbertaFarmer5]

If we were to assume that there exists a sustainable model for ag in our climate and soils, getting there won't happen overnight. Will probably take decade (s). With a large drop in both production and income in the early years. This might be a tolerable situation on owned land, but the short term pain, for long term gain doesn't fly on short term rented land.
How does the current business model adjust to that?

[Sheepwheat]

This conversation sort of reminds me of the nay sayers of zero till back in the day. It won’t work here, too wet. It won’t work because….. fill in the blank.

No scientific debate. Just, it won’t work.

That’s ok. But I believe most are completely missing the point.

And that’s ok. Just seems like the old no till won’t work discussions.

[WiltonRanch]

This conversation sort of reminds me of the nay sayers of zero till back in the day. It won’t work here, too wet. It won’t work because….. fill in the blank.

No scientific debate. Just, it won’t work.

That’s ok. But I believe most are completely missing the point.

And that’s ok. Just seems like the old no till won’t work discussions.

Don’t think we’re saying it won’t work. We’re saying be careful and don’t believe all the claims about it good and bad.

[blackpowder]

We need to differentiate between a sound business practice by a few producers and feeding the 2/3 of the people who can't afford their product.
Where the inputs converted to food come from, ultimately up to those 2/3.

[Sheepwheat]

Don’t think we’re saying it won’t work. We’re saying be careful and don’t believe all the claims about it good and bad.

Ok that’s fair. Appreciate it. I’m kind of a soils geek and so I study this kind of thing a lot. Doesn’t mean everyone else has to!

The ideas seem pretty cool.

Many species mixed to feed all the soil bugs, not just one set of bugs.
Absolutely no tillage
Conversion of unavailable nutrients to available which also feeds the soil
Rapid grazing periods, long rest periods. Lots of soil cover and trampling.
Avoidance of soil microbe killing herbs, fungicides, etc.

Forage rightly mentioned that a mono crop grass seed stand is for sure going to respond to fertilizer. Any mono crop will, because there is no synergy between multiple plant species and soil bugs.

A quick story from 2009.

In point form.

I purchased a section of land adjacent to our home quarter.
It was low input farmed by ppl who had cattle.
Prior crop fall rye
Fields COVERED IN DANDELIONS and many other weeds
Zapped with pre seed glyph and express
Seeded canola
Canola was one of the best crops I ever had.

What I noticed that others may not, because I dig, smell the soil, feel the soil, look at the soil, over and over again in multiple places on the field. I take more time studying the soil than I do digging for seed depth!

The soil tilth and granulation was something I had never seen before. The structure was impossibly amazing. Worms were everywhere. Yes, they are everywhere on my other land too, but not like that field. The dandelions and multiple other weeds had done this. You could actually see fungi threads all over the place, every single time I dug, mychorhizae was visible, the smell was like the bush after a fall rain. The stuff was ALIVE.

The next year, I had an NH3 booboo. Canary seed on the canola stubble. An eight acre strip got zero N and zero canary, so I came back with oats. The oats in the strip got no herbicide, no nutrients of any kind. It went about 130. Zero inputs other than the seed. I can only attribute it to the living soil from years of no till, scant inputs, weeds, yes weeds, fall grazing after harvest. What else was different? Nothing I can think of. To this day, this land, which is my lowest assessed that I farm, half as good as the RM map would tell you, is better producing than my “good” land.

That is one small story. This is why I took note of it, where other ppl wouldn’t have known maybe because it would have got the full load of nutrients, they have a hatred of weeds, and they wouldn’t recognize the soil differences because they simply don’t stop and dig for pleasure!

Anyway. There is something to this thing imho.

Thanks for listening.

[WiltonRanch]

Ok that’s fair. Appreciate it. I’m kind of a soils geek and so I study this kind of thing a lot. Doesn’t mean everyone else has to!

The ideas seem pretty cool.

Many species mixed to feed all the soil bugs, not just one set of bugs.
Absolutely no tillage
Conversion of unavailable nutrients to available which also feeds the soil
Rapid grazing periods, long rest periods. Lots of soil cover and trampling.
Avoidance of soil microbe killing herbs, fungicides, etc.

Forage rightly mentioned that a mono crop grass seed stand is for sure going to respond to fertilizer. Any mono crop will, because there is no synergy between multiple plant species and soil bugs.

A quick story from 2009.

In point form.

I purchased a section of land adjacent to our home quarter.
It was low input farmed by ppl who had cattle.
Prior crop fall rye
Fields COVERED IN DANDELIONS and many other weeds
Zapped with pre seed glyph and express
Seeded canola
Canola was one of the best crops I ever had.

What I noticed that others may not, because I dig, smell the soil, feel the soil, look at the soil, over and over again in multiple places on the field. I take more time studying the soil than I do digging for seed depth!

The soil tilth and granulation was something I had never seen before. The structure was impossibly amazing. Worms were everywhere. Yes, they are everywhere on my other land too, but not like that field. The dandelions and multiple other weeds had done this. You could actually see fungi threads all over the place, every single time I dug, mychorhizae was visible, the smell was like the bush after a fall rain. The stuff was ALIVE.

The next year, I had an NH3 booboo. Canary seed on the canola stubble. An eight acre strip got zero N and zero canary, so I came back with oats. The oats in the strip got no herbicide, no nutrients of any kind. It went about 130. Zero inputs other than the seed. I can only attribute it to the living soil from years of no till, scant inputs, weeds, yes weeds, fall grazing after harvest. What else was different? Nothing I can think of. To this day, this land, which is my lowest assessed that I farm, half as good as the RM map would tell you, is better producing than my “good” land.

That is one small story. This is why I took note of it, where other ppl wouldn’t have known maybe because it would have got the full load of nutrients, they have a hatred of weeds, and they wouldn’t recognize the soil differences because they simply don’t stop and dig for pleasure!

Anyway. There is something to this thing imho.

Thanks for listening.

Good on you for being observant and learning from what you see. Now the key is to gradually try what you found out to other parts of your farm. Guaranteed there’ll be places it won’t respond as well but others it will. By the time you’re about ready to quit you’ll have it figured out. This stuff takes years to figure but fruitful when you do. Have you ever heard of covers and co? They’re into cover crops obviously and have a YouTube Chanel by that name. They’re out of Manitoba but talk with guys all over the prairies about this stuff. They don’t bs about this stuff being the magic bullet but share what they’ve learned from experimenting and mishaps. It’s interesting to say the least.

[TASFarms]

http://www.back-to-your-roots.com/about/2023-conference.html

Anyone going to this?

[BreadWinner]

It's all about TAX, first they make you think you are harming the environment then then tax then shit out of you. Its all about wealth transfer nothing else, wedge an issue and then sit back and laugh. Trudope style!!!

[Hamloc]

It's all about TAX, first they make you think you are harming the environment then then tax then shit out of you. Its all about wealth transfer nothing else, wedge an issue and then sit back and laugh. Trudope style!!!

Bingo!