The Fertilizer Files

[Sheepwheat]

Don’t think we’re saying it won’t work. We’re saying be careful and don’t believe all the claims about it good and bad.

Ok that’s fair. Appreciate it. I’m kind of a soils geek and so I study this kind of thing a lot. Doesn’t mean everyone else has to!

The ideas seem pretty cool.

Many species mixed to feed all the soil bugs, not just one set of bugs.
Absolutely no tillage
Conversion of unavailable nutrients to available which also feeds the soil
Rapid grazing periods, long rest periods. Lots of soil cover and trampling.
Avoidance of soil microbe killing herbs, fungicides, etc.

Forage rightly mentioned that a mono crop grass seed stand is for sure going to respond to fertilizer. Any mono crop will, because there is no synergy between multiple plant species and soil bugs.

A quick story from 2009.

In point form.

I purchased a section of land adjacent to our home quarter.
It was low input farmed by ppl who had cattle.
Prior crop fall rye
Fields COVERED IN DANDELIONS and many other weeds
Zapped with pre seed glyph and express
Seeded canola
Canola was one of the best crops I ever had.

What I noticed that others may not, because I dig, smell the soil, feel the soil, look at the soil, over and over again in multiple places on the field. I take more time studying the soil than I do digging for seed depth!

The soil tilth and granulation was something I had never seen before. The structure was impossibly amazing. Worms were everywhere. Yes, they are everywhere on my other land too, but not like that field. The dandelions and multiple other weeds had done this. You could actually see fungi threads all over the place, every single time I dug, mychorhizae was visible, the smell was like the bush after a fall rain. The stuff was ALIVE.

The next year, I had an NH3 booboo. Canary seed on the canola stubble. An eight acre strip got zero N and zero canary, so I came back with oats. The oats in the strip got no herbicide, no nutrients of any kind. It went about 130. Zero inputs other than the seed. I can only attribute it to the living soil from years of no till, scant inputs, weeds, yes weeds, fall grazing after harvest. What else was different? Nothing I can think of. To this day, this land, which is my lowest assessed that I farm, half as good as the RM map would tell you, is better producing than my “good” land.

That is one small story. This is why I took note of it, where other ppl wouldn’t have known maybe because it would have got the full load of nutrients, they have a hatred of weeds, and they wouldn’t recognize the soil differences because they simply don’t stop and dig for pleasure!

Anyway. There is something to this thing imho.

Thanks for listening.

[WiltonRanch]

Ok that’s fair. Appreciate it. I’m kind of a soils geek and so I study this kind of thing a lot. Doesn’t mean everyone else has to!

The ideas seem pretty cool.

Many species mixed to feed all the soil bugs, not just one set of bugs.
Absolutely no tillage
Conversion of unavailable nutrients to available which also feeds the soil
Rapid grazing periods, long rest periods. Lots of soil cover and trampling.
Avoidance of soil microbe killing herbs, fungicides, etc.

Forage rightly mentioned that a mono crop grass seed stand is for sure going to respond to fertilizer. Any mono crop will, because there is no synergy between multiple plant species and soil bugs.

A quick story from 2009.

In point form.

I purchased a section of land adjacent to our home quarter.
It was low input farmed by ppl who had cattle.
Prior crop fall rye
Fields COVERED IN DANDELIONS and many other weeds
Zapped with pre seed glyph and express
Seeded canola
Canola was one of the best crops I ever had.

What I noticed that others may not, because I dig, smell the soil, feel the soil, look at the soil, over and over again in multiple places on the field. I take more time studying the soil than I do digging for seed depth!

The soil tilth and granulation was something I had never seen before. The structure was impossibly amazing. Worms were everywhere. Yes, they are everywhere on my other land too, but not like that field. The dandelions and multiple other weeds had done this. You could actually see fungi threads all over the place, every single time I dug, mychorhizae was visible, the smell was like the bush after a fall rain. The stuff was ALIVE.

The next year, I had an NH3 booboo. Canary seed on the canola stubble. An eight acre strip got zero N and zero canary, so I came back with oats. The oats in the strip got no herbicide, no nutrients of any kind. It went about 130. Zero inputs other than the seed. I can only attribute it to the living soil from years of no till, scant inputs, weeds, yes weeds, fall grazing after harvest. What else was different? Nothing I can think of. To this day, this land, which is my lowest assessed that I farm, half as good as the RM map would tell you, is better producing than my “good” land.

That is one small story. This is why I took note of it, where other ppl wouldn’t have known maybe because it would have got the full load of nutrients, they have a hatred of weeds, and they wouldn’t recognize the soil differences because they simply don’t stop and dig for pleasure!

Anyway. There is something to this thing imho.

Thanks for listening.

Good on you for being observant and learning from what you see. Now the key is to gradually try what you found out to other parts of your farm. Guaranteed there’ll be places it won’t respond as well but others it will. By the time you’re about ready to quit you’ll have it figured out. This stuff takes years to figure but fruitful when you do. Have you ever heard of covers and co? They’re into cover crops obviously and have a YouTube Chanel by that name. They’re out of Manitoba but talk with guys all over the prairies about this stuff. They don’t bs about this stuff being the magic bullet but share what they’ve learned from experimenting and mishaps. It’s interesting to say the least.

[TASFarms]

http://www.back-to-your-roots.com/about/2023-conference.html

Anyone going to this?

[BreadWinner]

It's all about TAX, first they make you think you are harming the environment then then tax then shit out of you. Its all about wealth transfer nothing else, wedge an issue and then sit back and laugh. Trudope style!!!

[Hamloc]

It's all about TAX, first they make you think you are harming the environment then then tax then shit out of you. Its all about wealth transfer nothing else, wedge an issue and then sit back and laugh. Trudope style!!!

Bingo!

[ColevilleH2S]

... Canary seed on the canola stubble. An eight acre strip got zero N and zero canary, so I came back with oats. The oats in the strip got no herbicide, no nutrients of any kind. It went about 130...

Trading inputs for time.
130 in two years is 65 bushels per acre per year.

[woodland]

Hi Sheepwheat
Gotta remember Steve Kenyon is buying hay for his bale grazing. Importing nutrients and organic matter of any form to tired old pasture can triple grass production for quite a few years. The moisture retention of the leftover hay and manure helps a lot too.

I think the best way to increase forage production out here is to rotate alfalfa based fields every 5-7 years vs perpetual grass. No till and mixed farming make this “easier“ to do.

One of the side effects of the corn grazing we’re doing is the improvement of our sandiest ground. Most years it would burn up in a grain crop but now grows 7+ foot corn on the hilltops. There’s a huge increase of tilth in the soil and we’re cutting back on fertilizer after 3-4 years. I’m curious to see what another 5+ years of this will result in. We keep pulling soil tests annually from one field so we should be able to make some comparisons which will be interesting.

Many different ways to improve the soil and hopefully the finances too. Always interested in seeing how someone shakes up the neighbourhood. I’m looking forward to updates along the journey.

Good luck🍀

[Old Cowzilla]

We are all just nutrient traders cattle and grain hoping to make a bit on the margins. Seems a lot of other folks want to make more off our margins than us. The dirt smell and earthworms came back when I started seeding into stubble plus canola crops are better than ever. Can someone lend me a mil for state of art seeding tool to make up for previous tillage sins ?

[Guest]

an old morris maxim 2 will direct seed into any stubble including alfalfa , dont need the mil .

[WiltonRanch]

I have an ongoing experiment with a mix of clovers. Had a decent start last season so imagine with snow cover it should start off good this spring. Probably terminate one field and plant canola because of thistle pressure. Other field is cow feed so give it a shot of glyphosate and seed a cereal. Hoping clovers as resistant to glyphosate as they say so it’s set back enough to get cereal well established but come back enough later to make a nice feed. Goofy idea but I’m going to try. Heck if clovers come up thick I could leave it for hay or graze if I desperately needed grazing. All said I sit here and really wondered why I did this in the first place. Bought seed from a seed grower for a reasonable price and for what nitrogen this will fix won’t be a substantial larger value than what I paid. I guess it’ll be the other intangibles like deep roots, nutrient cycling, soil improvement, and extra spring grazing. Nutrient fixing alone a load of urea still more practical and economical.

[WiltonRanch]

an old morris maxim 2 will direct seed into any stubble including alfalfa , dont need the mil .

Tried it with a clapped out 1820 Deere with canola. Worked out fine and it was a dry year. We’ve been catching up on 10+ year old hay stands so need to work them up cause they’re rough. Otherwise I’d direct seed sod all the time. Needs to be sprayed previous year or it’s tough to do a good job.

[Sheepwheat]

Trading inputs for time.
130 in two years is 65 bushels per acre per year.

I don’t follow that theory? The oats was on the canola stubble. I maybe didn’t explain it well enough.

The main thing that the theory holds to, is that multiple species of forages, warm and cool season varieties, boosts the soil micro flora. Then, the root exudates, the michorhizae, the synergy starts. Dead and dying microflora, and the massive carbon sequestration because of a party mix of plants, is where the organic matter comes from.

Yes, Steve imports hay and bale grazes. But only on select pieces. I unroll hay. But only in very small acreages.

Before white man came, there was no added inputs. Where then did the organic matter come from then? The tall grass Prairie was not only one or two species. It wasn’t only rough fescue. It was dozens to a hundred or more plant species. All needing different nutrients, calling for and enhancing different nutrients. Growing symbiotically.

That is the part that fascinates me. Does this work? I will see. I mean no one on here has come forward and said they tried it. The closest thing to it is still one or two species blends.

I think the idea makes a pile of sense. Can’t wait to get out there this spring. I feel like a young lad again. Ha

We shall see.

[seedman]

http://www.back-to-your-roots.com/about/2023-conference.html

Anyone going to this?

I am going... have been trying a few of these things out on our operation last number of years and we are seeing some interesting things for sure. looking forward to the information being presented
.