Wheat vs. Coal

[grassfarmer]

I know you guys are looking for new markets for wheat but doesn't sustainability come into this somewhere?
Wouldn't it be madness to use finite fuel resources to grow wheat on the prairies and then burn it as a replacement for fossil fuels?

[ianben]

Heres the first listing from my post posted Oct 22, 2004 15:13 Oil vs Wheat Lots about sustainability down there still on list near bottom. Oil has again reached even higher highs recently so wheat/crops as a fuel must be an option.
Local coop is looking at a Danish canola press. Oil as fuel mix with diesel and meal into hog rations.All very local!!
At present canola/diesel prices numbers look fantastic.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As oil reaches new highs daily and Tom and Charlie talk $50-$70 feed wheat.
Where do these two prices meet?
What is energy value of a ton of wheat using current oil price.
Can you replace that tonne for $50-$70 next year with higher fuel and fert costs.

We are in same position here Poor harvest weather lots of feed wheat £50 -£70/tonne fuel up from 15p to 25p and climbing N from £110 to £151 and climing.

No way can I replace the wheat in the bin for todays sale prices.

Price update 22/3/05
feed wheat £70
N £170
Fuel 31p/litre

[Vader]

grassfarmer,

as long as we are growing a commodity that people do not perceive as having "energy" value, then high input costs relating to energy will continue to hurt us.

When the world recognizes that our land is actually useful for its ability to harvest the energy of the sun then high energy costs will be our best friend.

I admit that right now burning our wheat may not be very attractive. In the future that may change. Right now I am simply interested in the mechanics of the process.

My belief is that we must IP our milling quality wheat and remove it from the bulk pooling system. We would then be free to move away from the KVD system and allow plant breeders to develop the full yield potential of both milling and non-milling wheat.

For those wheats that will be used as livestock feed or ethanol (or burning in thermal generating stations), higher yields will be the key to successful competition with corn.

[parsley]

Grassfarmer,

Good Point! It would be "madness to use finite fuel resources to grow wheat on the prairies and then burn it as a replacement for fossil fuels."

But from the Wheat Board's point of view, you would have the Federal Government's Wheat Board marketing grain to say another Government entity, SaskPower.

Adam Smith couldn't live on what he'd get, but the per diems for the CWB itself could then go up, their jobs would be guaranteed, and they could open an entire CWB Environmental Department to "study the effects of coal vs wheat", or "the burning effects of different varieties of wheat" etc.

Director Flaman, for example, could be appointed to oversee the entire undertaking, uncluding attending the various Liberal functions so he could speak "directly to the Minister" about the new pet venture and I am sure they could find an advertising company that would handle thinking farmers like you grassfarmer!.

Parsley

[Vader]

I am concerned about finite fuel sources for the production of all grains. Are we looking at the energy balance to see if in fact the net energy out is greater than the net energy in? It doesnt matter whether you burn that energy in a human body or burn it in a thermal generating station. There is a scientific principle at play here which gets little attention from any sector.

We are starting to feel the pinch with 70 cent diesel fuel and $360 per tonn Urea fertilizer. Wait till oil reaches 80.00 per barrel.

Somebody needs to study and understand the science. Is director Flaman the right person to work on that problem? He does have an Engineering degree. Perhaps he as the best insight to drive thinking at the governmental level. Farmers will not solve this problem all by themselves without support from various levels of policy making.

I once hears someone say that their greatest fear was that Flaman would get in there and fix the CWB.

[parsley]

Really, Vader? My experience has been that farmers ARE the innovators. They are astute problem solvers. They can fix anything. They grow excellent crops. Innovation for improvement in equipment has often been gleaned at the farm level. They cut back when times are tough. They raise good families. They are good citizens.

Farmers are generally competent and they manage their farms well. Every once in awhile,though, you run across an incompetent one, but they often metamorphose into policy makers in order to survive.

Often,those very policy makers are the ones who have guaranteed that the farm community continues to suffer with wheat that is marketed under the cost of production.

The proof is in the pudding when one looks at the returns of Board grains over a sixty year period at the farmgate , and compares them to the returns of non Board grains at the farmgate over the same period.

Only then, can one can understand why the farm community groans in unison when a farmer-turned-policy-maker is a wannabe thinker propped up by a velvet government chair.

Parsley

[ianben]

Pasted this thread again as I think it is relevent here on the sustainability issues

Simply explained, biomass is vegetation -- for example, trees, grasses, plant
parts such as leaves, agricultural waste products, and ocean plants. Being
extremely efficient solarcollection systems, plants will produce and store
energy in the form of carbon as they grow.

During photosynthesis, plants combine carbon dioxide from the air and water
from the ground to form carbohydrates, which form the building blocks of
biomass. The solar energy that drives photosynthesis is stored in the
chemical bonds of the structural components of biomass. If we burn
biomass efficiently (which extracts the energy stored in the chemical bonds),
then oxygen from the atmosphere combines with the carbon in plants to
produce carbon dioxide and water.

Biomass is one of the oldest fuels known to man. Although basic, the
primitive campfire illustrates the nature of using biomass for power.
When biomass is burned, it produces heat. In a power plant, this heat
is used to turn water into steam. The steam is then used to turn turbines,
which are connected to electric generators.

Prior to 1875; the United States primary energy supply was from biomass.
And back then, an acre of native grass provided the energy to fuel a
horse -- then the country's only means of transportation! (That's roughly
what it took to pasture one.) Today, using that same quantity of native
grass as a biomass resource, enough fuel can be created to drive a
car 10,000 miles!

There is actually and abundance of biomass in virtually every part of
the world that can be tapped to create power. If we used all the biomass
potentially available today, the energy content in that fuel would produce
an estimated 2,750 Quads. (1 Quad is equal to 1,000,000,000,000,000
BTUs) At present, the world population uses only about 7% of the
available annual production of biomass.

Biomass is probably the most underutilized renewable resource in the
U.S. today. How much of this alternative energy material is available
for use in this country right now? Here is an example. Space heating
accounts for approximately 50% of our total annual energy budget and
is also responsible for more than 25% of our total Green House Gas
emissions. Approximately six quadrillion BTU's of energy were consumed
for space heating in the United States, representing about $45 billion in
expenditures. According to the 1997 census there are 101 million homes
in the US. The current available biomass resources could potentially heat
the equivalent of 260 million homes!

By displacing more polluting forms of energy generation, biomass resources
for energy will also assist America in reducing its dependence on Persian
Gulf oil and cut emisions of those harmful greenhouse gases. Using
Biomass for energy technologies will also create jobs and fuel economic
growth across America.

Using biomass to create energy showcases many unique qualities that
can provide a plethora of environmental benefits as well. It can help
mitigate climate change, reduce acid rain, soil erosion, water pollution
and pressure on landfills, provide wildlife habitat, and help maintain
forest health through better management.

More than any other resource, biomass is capable of simutaneously
addressing the nations' energy, environmental, and economic needs.
Biomass is the logical alternative fuel of the future.


I would just like to draw your attention to the last paragragh.

Can it be a win win win solution?

If you go right back to the begining of this thread sustainability was my greivance.

Why are we selling feed wheat a a price we cannot replace it for?

Why are we selling wheat for less than its energy value?

[parsley]

Ianben;

We would not be selling wheat for less than cost of production if we can eliminate:

1.Exhorbitant administration costs. The CWB employees are VERY VERY well paid. More $ in farmer pockets

2. National Licensing costs should be paid for by the Federal Governmant as the law requires. More $ in farmer pockets.

3. Demmurage costs should be unheard of for farmers. More $ in farmer pockets.


4. Eliminate Board marketing and have Marketing by farmers who want to market their own grain. Nobody is more interested in my bottom line than I am. More $ in farmer pockets.

5. No more cash going towards the Liberal fundraisers. More $ in farmer pockets.
6. No more sending cars filled with the wrong grain at the wrong time all over the country like the CWB does. More $ in farmer pockets.
7. No more paying for 25 or 30 per diem-CWB staff attending a meeting with 20 farmers at the meeting. More $ in farmer pockets.
8. No more paying $10Million annually for International Trade wars that the Federal Government is legislatively supposed to be paying. More $ in farmer pockets.

9. No more paying for overcleaning at the ports. More $ in farmer pockets.

10.No more paying for ridiculous, embarassing CWB advertising that does not add one cent to the value of the grain for farmers.More $ in farmer pockets.

Burn our wheat? Let's just eliminate some of these bleeding costs. They really do add up.

Parsley

[Vader]

Parsley,

you post the long huge litany of exhorbitant CWB costs and say just get rid of the CWB and everything will be just fine.

Total CWB costs are $3.50 per tonne this year or 10 cents per bushel. The CWB earns roughly this amount back on the careful management of credit receivables so the net cost to the producer is actually zero.

But even forgetting about the interest earnings do you really think that adding 10 cents per bushel of wheat is going to solve the problem of a world awash in grain.

The world produced a record crop of corn this past year exceeding the previous record by 40 million tonnes. Canada's total production of the six major grains is 50 million tonnes.

Parsley, only in your tiny little simplistic world will eliminating the CWB solve the income crisis in agriculture.

Corporate consolidation around the world continues. Rumors abound with which grain company will be next to merge or acquire the other guy. Five grain companies today control 80 percent of grain handling in the world.

Farmers are driven to produce more and more grain as margins decline and the market power is driven into the hands of the multinationals as producers are forced through the bottleneck of the multinational processors and grain handlers. Yes a few small organic growers can bypass some of these barriers and get a premium by dealing directly with the customer. What would that be? 250,000 tonnes per year? One million? Worldwide? A drop in the bucket. The world produced 622 million tonnes of spring wheat alone.

What chance of achieving even miniscule amounts of market power does the average farmer have if they listen to you and throw away the CWB? No, the answer is to completely delink the CWB from government and continue on the road to accountability, flexibility and innovation that the elected governance structure of the CWB has begun. As long as the multinationals do not own all of the flour mills in Japan, China, and North Africa there is an opportunity for Western Canadian Farmers to bypass these multinationals and do business directly with the end users through the CWB.

Parsley, in your world a few small niche market producers will perhaps find success while the vast majority are squeezed through the cattle chutes and stripped of all their profits by the multinational grain handlers and processors. Don't call me a fear monger. Just look at reality. Who is over in the Ukraine taking wheat from the Ukrainian farmer at $50.00 per tonne and putting it on the world market at $100.00. It is those guys who control 80% of the grain trade. Look at any corporation. Do they have any concience if it has not be shoved down their throats by legislation. They bow down to the almighty shareholder. Profit is everything. For a food processor that means lowering their acquisition costs.

ADM posted record profits at Christmas time when the abundant harvest came in and drove down commodity prices. ADM is investing in oilseed crushing in China. Right now no one player has more than one percent of the flour milling in China. That could change and it will if ADM and Cargill have their way. You see they control the grain handling industry but they make their money on processing. Could it be any plainer?

Farmers in the US are struggling even with 25 Billion dollars per year in subsidies. They don't have a big bad CWB. The do pay way more in freight than we do. Their elevators comingle the good with the bad and cannot deliver a consistent quality product to their customers. They envy our reputation for quality. The US keeps trying to pull us down to their level. They attack our variety registration system. They call our government owned hopper cars a subsidy. They want to destroy the CWB. Why don't they try to bring their system up to the same standards as our system. They say they have breeding programs delivering wheat varieties that are the best in the world, but they can't deliver that quality to the customer. It is much easier to tear down what we have instead. They are a bunch of bullies.

We can fight. I am not sure we can win. We have already lost a generation of farmers. The next generation of farmers could well be employees of the multinationals and the family farm could be extinct. I don't know. What I do know is that we stand a better chance if we play the game smart. We have to play together. We have to quit arguing.

As the era of the Saskatchwan Wheat Pool comes to an end and another multinational plucks them out of the game I see the CWB rises to take their place. We can learn from history and do it better or we can keep making the same mistakes over and over. The game is getting more complicated. There are a lot of new rules and new tools. If we join the game without a game plan, and that is what I suggest that you are promoting, we will lose. The CWB is capable of developing and carrying out a plan. It can be any plan. It doesn't have to be the plan you see today. It is up to us to decide how to use this tool. The worst possible decision would be to simply throw it away.

[TOM4CWB]

Vader,

A really simple solution.

When I need the CWB... and offer grain to the CWB... because it earns my business... great.

But the CWB does not have the right to steal grain not offered to it in the first place.

Respect, creativity, trust, integrity, value... these are all attributes a monopoly does not need to take my grain from me at discount prices.

Unless the CWB takes a drastic step to resolve these issues... it will be dismantled... by some force greater than designated area farmers themselves.

We must create a system that works in harmony... creates intrinsic value that can be measured.

Millers want and need screenings... that is why we add them back after cleaning out dockage to the maximum tolerance. The grain must be recleaned to go through the mill in any event before it can be processed in modern mills.

One simple command VADER... "thou shalt not steal".