Beans down 9 tonight on respectable volume

[rookie]

What a mess .

We cite the aboriginees of australia being thee for thousands of years, and the natives of north america being here also ( living there traditional life style ) and along comes a new society where we install phones, t.v. , and every other modern thing and say be like us....
It has been a very steep learning curve for them all.
It saddens meto think that people who for thousands of years stayed basically the same have had to change so drastically in such a relatively short period of time.
It sure doesn't surprise me there are problems. "My people " if I can put it that way, can't seem to be perfect aftr plenty of so called civilized evolution.
I hear people say "they " should be like us ( so what example has our society set at times )

Crap... how many farmers are stuck in there generational tracks not really planning to change there ways these days ( and if so how much).

I don't know how it will all evolve, but I am sure it wil go beyond my time .
Nothing happens over night, does it ?

My only fear is that every thing except one ingrediant is being thrown at this whole issue.

Understanding

Then again maybe that is something our little global village should practice a bit more... and do you think that will happen to the level we all want .

my two cents

[cakadu]

Rookie, good points. Aren't we in the west also doing that to the developing countries? I've often wondered at what point white western civilization became the best way to live because in many instances, we certainly aren't the model for really good living, as you've stated.


We have to first seek to understand, then be understood. Is there no room for compromise here? Does it have to be all one way or the other? It is going to take time and a lot of work, effort and resources channeled the most effective way to sustain meaningful change.

It's true emrald, what has the senate done for us lately? Alberta spent some $3 million to lamely elect 4 wannabe senators and I say lamely because the majority of people didn't even vote for senators. Mind you, those people really didn't do much in the way of campaigning either - just put your x there, but I digress.

That could have been $3 million spent towards our youth - no matter what culture - money that would have been far better spent.

[r.reid]

Emerald 1

Yes the senate is a waste of money 99.9% of the time. But that is a seperate issue alltogather (Adrian Clarkson needs her ass booted too).

Tell me Emerald 1 what do the treaties guarantee???
1. New 4x4 trucks...NO
2. High powered rifles to go night hunting with...NO
3. Casinos that become mismanaged, and in debt to the tune of millions...NO
4. Bumper stickers that read "WORK HARD WHITE MAN"...NO
5. Budwieser...NO

I say again "the money comes from somewhere".

The treaties are are a JOKE.

[r.reid]

At one time I did know a lot of what some of the treatys did mean to the first nations, however, I haven't read them for awhile. I imagine that pickup trucks are purchased with oil revenue, treaty money etc., so it would seem that if the natives receive that money under a condition of their treaty, it is their business what they buy with it. There are some agreements that allow treaty indians the right to travel back and forth across the US/Canada Border at will, as this is a condition that was given years and years ago.
Rookie, you made some excellent points. I think that we need to step back and look at this situation and how it evolved and how the treatys came about. Certainly, most of us have our roots in another country, and our ancestors came here with likely only the clothes on their back and a few dollars in their pockets if they were among the fortunate ones.
They also were able to homestead and prove up lands that became theirs outright.
The native population was here long before any immigrants came from other lands, they had use of all the land and hunted, fished, trapped to support their people and their way of life.
White man came and trapped out all the beaver, shot the buffalo and when the natives opposed it they were herded onto reservations and treaty's were signed guaranteeing them certain things for as long as the 'rivers shall flow' etc.
From what I see the rivers or most of them are still flowing, and the younger generations of first nations have the right to expect the treaty's to be honored.
As I have said in other posts, if changes need to be made, then what are the alternatives ??

[r.reid]

Most all I have heard from some of you is: "look at the past, look what happened in the past, but remember what happened in the past".

Right...Okay...don't get me wrong, it IS important to remember the past and what happened. But we also must look to the future and start planning it now because it is spinning out of control.

First of all I say that the double standards must end now. It is causing more racism, not less. Everybodies culture is important and nobodies is more important than someone elses.

Second: Acountability must be enforced. No matter WHO it is. If someone messes up they should pay for it.

Third: Urban reserves should disappear. THERE IS NO SUCH THING. They have been made up to get out of following rules. (for example: Areas with casinos in cities such as Prince Albert, magically become "urban reserves". No tax, NO provincial laws , and so on). NOT FAIR.


(I wonder if there are any politicians who log onto this site, they might learn something)....

*If there are any politicians here reading...please feel free to hop on this discussion. I would like to hear what you have to say.

[carebear300]

This is a great thread for this old farmer to read. I don't know if any of us have the solution but one thing I know for sure the road that we have to travel to solve this problem will not be simple or short, it will take a lifetime. One of the problems that I foresee is that the legal system is becoming infected with more and more native lawyers and pretty soon we will have an influx of fully qualified native judges that might if we are not careful really screw this system up but maybe not, maybe they will straighten it all out eventually. This is completely out of character for me to be this optimistic. The last ten days of dealing with accountants and bank managers and credit managers has given me a new insight into the way the world runs. Finally I have decided that the only way to survive is try to pick out anything positive you can or you will drive yourself and family completely nuts.

[carebear300]

r.reid, when you speak of 'urban reserve' land could you advise in what context you feel that particular land designation should be abolished. In our province a lot of municipalities have lands set aside as 'reserve' lands that have nothing to do with first nations, but are lands set in a 'reserve' for future growth They are lands owned by individuals that are located adjacent to both urban centres and hamlets.

[r.reid]

I'm talking about the Urban Indian Reservations.
1. An Indian reservation within city limits.
2. Indian casinos in cities. The property that these casinos sit on are considered INDIAN property. So now they don't have to follow provincial laws. But the poor sucker that owns a bussiness across the street has to follow them.
Because of what???his or her skin colour!


Answer me this question.

An Indian household in an "urban reserve" in a city buys a some new furniture, or car, or whatever. The merchandise is then delivered to the house on the "urban reserve". If the occupants of the house hold, on the "urban reserve", pay for the merchandise on delivery...do they have to pay tax on the items???

I'd be willing to bet the answer is NO

But if the items were picked up (outside of the "urban reserve"), which could be a block away, then tax would be paid....Right

[r.reid]

I am not aware of any urban reserves in AB. There is a casino being built on the Enoch Reserve which is right up against the city of Edmonton boundary but the land is not Urban Reserve, as in Indian Reserve.

It sounds like some of the issues are vastly different in Saskatchewan.
As far as paying taxes on purchases goes, it seems as though first nations people living on reservations do not have to pay GST. r.reid I really feel that it is wrong to blame the native people for taking advantage of rights provided to them by the government, if anything your ire should be directed to the government.

[r.reid]

Well you are entitled to your opinion, and I am entitled to mine.

I blame all of the above.