Bio diesel plant for ND

[wedino]

This has to be good news for canola.

GRAND FORKS -- A $50 million biodiesel manufacturing plant to be built in North Dakota will use canola to make fuel, creating jobs as well as a new market for farmers, officials said Tuesday.

Full article -

http://www.bismarcktribune.com/articles/2005/03/23/news/topnews/top01.txt

[Vader]

How much of this canola will come from Canada? Is it the CWB's fault that this plant is not being built in Canada? The CWB is always being accused of standing in the way of value added processing and driving the industry into the US.

When will we build a 50million dollar biodiesel plant in Canada?

[wedino]

Vader, I have no idea how much canola will come from Canada. As far as I'm concerned it doesn't matter from where the canola comes, it only matters that canola is being consumed.

I'll leave it to others to answer your cwb questions. Last I heard canola was free from cwb.

[TOM4CWB]

Vader,

Since you brought the subject up, is the CWB planning to buy and sell Canola in the future?

[Vader]

It is strange how different the discussion is between canola and wheat and barley. With canola it is sufficient that it is being consumed. With wheat and barley many comments suggest that if it is not being processed in Canada that the CWB is doing something wrong.

Tom, I would welcome the opportunity for the CWB to market other crops. Don't get too excited it would not be mandated through the single desk. In fact you might not even know if the CWB were marketing other crops. There are times when the CWB offers cash bids for feed barley through the grain companies when sales values do not support the PRO and producers are not aware that that these stocks are for CWB sales.

[Everest]

Nice to see new processing in North America. I for one would prefer a Canola biodiesel plant being built in Canada. US import duties and BSE should teach us all a lesson in how fragile exports of primary production can be.

Questions:

1. Is there any difference between mandated bio-fuels in Canada vs the US?
2. Is there a difference is tax incentives of any kind between Canada and the US?
3. Do US tax incentives and mandates for bio-fuels dictate where the production must come from?

I don't know the answers to these questions. If someone does, it might help explain things, and give us targets to work on so that we can get this kind of thing here too.

Again Vader, I do prefer to see processing plants being built in Canada. I believe it would bring a greater assurance of available markets, not to mention the economic spinoffs we would get on this side of the border. The Federal Government and the canola industry in Canada should be making sure it is just as economically advantageous to have plants in Canada as anywhere else. What is the CWB doing to promote it this kind of value added activity in wheat and barley? And what is the CWB doing so that farmers can access US plants directly as we are free to do with canola, flax, pulses, sunflowers, oats, etc, etc, etc,.

[charliep]

Will have to get someone's help from Manitoba but my understanding is that St. Agathe is up and running (finally). There are others who are more aware but my understanding are still running as a single press/leaving more oil in to improve energy of meal. May also be targeting the lower end of the canola grade spectrum and using oil may as an energy enhancer in poultry rations. Again, am looking for help.

This is just to highlight there are other value added activities around canola in western Canada. There has also been good research around bio fuels at the University of Saskatchewan. The uses will be as an additive in diesel fuels to improve performance/reduce wear and for use in environmently sensitive areas (better to spill canola oil versus diesel fuel).

[wd9]

Maybe the Biodiesel Association of Canada could answer a few of these questions.

[parsley]

Everest,

1. I did hear on the radio this morning that the cost of oil = 10% oil costs and 90% tax.
-So I would think if not taxation now, that future taxation would be a worry for developers.

2. I would think that all elevators, all mills etc. designated as works for the general advantage by CWB legislation wcould be a worry factor for anyone investing.

3. Could the CWB adding canola to the single desk be a nightmare for developers?

Is the Canadian environment too all-round risky for investors?

Parsley

[Vader]

parsley, I think you are guilty of fearmongering. There is no indication that the CWB will be adding canola to the single desk. The current legislation requires that producers ask for a vote before any grain is added/removed from the CWB.

The Canadian environment is definintely not a barrier to value added. Rogers Flour is building a new plant in BC. They have identified a market and done their due diligence and determined that this is an attractive investment opportunity. This is a wheat flour mill and they will be buying wheat from the CWB. No problem!

Conversely a producer group built a Pasta plant just south of the Canadian border (due south of Regina I believe) two years ago. The operated for one year and then went broke.

Everything hinges on consumer demand and a sound business plan.

[parsley]

On February 6, 1947, the Solicitor for the Canadian Wheat Board, Henry Monk, wrote a letter to M.W.McKenzie, Esq., Deputy Minister of trade and Commerce in Ottawa. He was drooling for an Act that would give the Federal Government domination and power over farmers, and he sent ammendments replying to the proposed CWB Act draft. In his letter, he enclosed the flour mills that were in operation at the time the CWB started to manage the grain industry.


Take a look, Vader:

MILLS IN MANITOBA


Altoana Milling Co. Ltd., Altona

Ellison Grist Mill, Tuelon

Gardenton Milling Co., Gardenton

Harrison Milling and Grain Co., Holmfield

Ho11and Flour Mills , Holland

Huron Hutterian Mutual Corpn., Benard

Kent Flour Mills. B. P., Virden

Maxwell.Hutterian Mutual Corpn., Pigeon Lake

Morris Milling Co. Ltd., Morris

North Eastern Flour Mills Ltd., Beausejour

North West Flour Mills, Fisher Branch

Ogilvie Flour Mills Co.Ltd, Winnipeg

Pine River Flour Mill, Pine River

Purity Flour Mills Ltd., St. Boniface

Roblin Flour Mill, Roblin

Sandy Lake Flour Mill, Sandy Lake

Sifton Flour Mills, Siftton

Simpson Flour Mills, Benito

Somerset Flour Mills, Somerset

Soo Lines Mills Ltd., Winnipeg

Steinbach F1our Mills, Steinbach

Turtle Mountain Flour Mills, Deloraine

Wawanesa Flour Mills, Wawanesa

Winkler Milling Co.. Ltd. W1nk1er


MILLS IN SASKATCHEWAN:

Assiniboia Flour Mills, Assiniboia

Battleford Milling Co., Battleford

Battleford Milling Co., Battleford

Canada West Grain Co. Ltd., Melfort

Central Saskatchewan Flour Mills Ltd., Wakaw

Consumers Co-operative Mills Ltd., Outlook

Esterhazy Flour Mill, Esterhazy

Estevan Flour Mill, Estevan

Foam Lake Flour Mills, Foam Lake

Gravelbourg Flour and Feed, Gravelbourg

Hub City Flour Mill, Saskatoon

Kamsack Flour Mill, Kamsack

Kayville Flour Mills, Kayville

McNab Flour Mills Ltd., Humboldt

Melville Milling Co., Melville

National Flour Mills Ltd., MooseJaw

Prairie Milling Co.Ltd., Herbert

Prairie Milling Co.Ltd., Tompkins

Quaker Oat. Co. of Canada Ltd., Saskatoon

Redberry Food Product Ltd., Saskatoon

Regina Flour Mill, Regina

Robin Hood Flour Mills Ltd., MooseJaw

Robin Hood Flour Mills Ltd., Saskatoon

Sunrise Milling Co., Biggar

Swift Current Flour Mills Ltd., Shaunavon

Swift Current Flour Mills Ltd., Swift Current

Union Supply Co. Ltd., Rosthern

Unity Flour Mills, Unity

Waskesiu Mills Ltd., Prince Albert

Weyburn Flour Mills Ltd., Weyburn

Wynyard Flour Mill, Wynyard

Yorkton Milling Co.Ltd., Yorkton

Viscount Flour & Feed Mills, Viscount


MILLS IN ALBERTA:

Andrew Flour Milling Co., Andrew

Andruik Flour Mills, Andruik

Byers Flour Mills, Camrose

Castor Flour Mills, Castor

Chinook Flour Mill Ltd., Okotoks

Coronation Milling Co., Coronation

Coronation Flour Mill, Calgary

Eckville Milling Co., Eckville.

Ellison Milling & Elevator Co.Ltd., Lethbridge

Gas City Flour Mill Co.Ltd., Medicine Hat

Lake of the Wood. Milling Co. Ltd., Medicine Hat

MacEachern Milling Co. Ltd., Wetaskawin

Maple Leaf Milling Co. Ltd., Medicine Hat

Mundare Flour Mill, Mundare

Nanton Flour Mill, Nanton

Nanton Flour Mill, Okotoks

North West Mill & Feed Co. Ltd., S.Edmonton

0gilvie Flour Mills Co.Ltd. The, Medicine Hat

0gilvie Flour Mills Co.Ltd., The Edmonton

Ohaton Flour Mills Ltd., Ohaton

Peace River Milling Co. Ltd., Calgary

Purity Flour Mills Ltd., Calgary

Radway Flour Mill, Radway

Opportune Flour Mill, Delia

Renown Flour Mills Ltd., Calgary

Robertson & Co. Ltd. A. C., Gleichen

Robin Hood Flour Mills Ltd., Calgary

Rosebud Flour Mills Co., Didsbury

Rockport Colony of Hutterian Brethren, Magrath

Rycroft Flour Mill, Rycroft

St. Paul Milling Co., St. Paul

Sterling Flour Mills Ltd., Strome

Stettler Flour Mills Ltd., Stettler

Sunnyview Flour Mill, Acme

Taber Flour Mill, Taber

United Grain Growers Ltd., Edmonton

Vegreville Flour & Feed Mill, Vegreville


Every one of these mills value-added. Every one of these mills hired workers. Are you pleased at how well the Wheat Board has been running the show since 1947? How many mills are left in your town, Agri-villers?

Tell me Vader, which of these towns will be grateful for the central planning that the CWB has done? Which of these companies will be pleased they had confidence in a Wheat Board that was supposedly better at looking after their interests than they themselves?

You admire master planning, Vader, but you would be brave indeed to try and bully the families of some of these millers into agreeing with you that the CWB is indeed the Holy Grail. You could end up heading for prairie hills with your tail between your legs, screaming "Fear mongers".

Parsley

[Vader]

parsley,

Shall we go through the litany of confectionary stores that have closed in the last 50 years, the butcher shops, the launderers, buggy whip manufacturers?

Life goes on and corporate consolidation is a reality. The flour mills that have closed did not close because of the CWB. They closed becuase of competition and the economies of scale.

You make the most irrational arguments through blind hatred and your desire to destroy the CWB.

[parsley]

Vader,

"The confectionary stores that have closed in the last 50 years, the butcher shops, the launderers, buggy whip manufacturers", as you refer to, were not declared as "works for the general advantage of Canada (WFTGAOC)" as were the flour mills!

The mills were ****d. The government set the price of wheat. They slapped on a national tariff. They could immediately take away your mill license. They controlled the railways and the cars and the movement of grain,...so any mill could get cut out of the flour traffic in a blink. The CWB took legislative control.

I didn't make the "works for the ..( WTGAOC) phrase up . You can find it in the CWB Act itself. In case you haven't read that part of the Act, here it is:

76. For greater certainty, but not so as to restrict the generality of any declaration in the Canada Grain Act that any elevator is a work for the general advantage of Canada, it is hereby declared that all flour mills, feed mills, feed warehouses and seed cleaning mills, whether heretofore constructed or hereafter to be constructed, are and each of them is hereby declared to be works or a work for the general advantage of Canada and, without limiting the generality of the foregoing, every mill or warehouse mentioned or described in the schedule is a work for the general advantage of Canada.

R.S., c. C-12, s. 45.

So now we see that the mills that all these people owned became the works for the GENRERAL ADVANTAGE OF CANADA.

You'd love that Vader, but a lot of business people didn't share that view you hold. They called it facism. Privately owned with no control over what they owned. Regulated to the death.

If you were a Multicorp today, would you build anything in Canada that couldn't be folded up in the middle of the night and loaded for transport?

Would you build a big mustard plant or any kind of processing plant only to find it is really a function of the state?


Central Planning folks in Saskatchewan started the Land Bank system where the Government owned the land and "incompetent managers" would do the work. Same vision. Central planning. Your kind of vision. Vader-Vision can be your logo when you run for Politiks, Comrade.

I'm not blind, Vader because the Legislation backs me up.

I don't think even China wants to brag about this kind of legislative vision any more. Cuba will be your only promising shining example of Central planning you can entice Designated Area farmers with, Vader .

No wonder you hope we are all blind.

Parsley

[wd9]

A bit on biodiesel if anyone is still reading.

Biodiesel is not a commercial fuel product in Canada at the present time. The production costs of biodiesel are dominated by the feedstock cost. In the case of vegetable oils the net feedstock cost accounts for 78% of the total production costs for the scenario evaluated. Feedstock costs can fluctuate from year to year and have been as much as 50% higher and 33% lower than the average value. This price swing dramatically impacts the costs of producing biodiesel. It is estimated that the current costs of producing biodiesel from Canola oil or soybean oil is 63 cents per litre. Biodiesel selling prices would have to be higher than this to provide an investor a satisfactory rate of return.

Biodiesel production costs are lower when animal fats and cooking oil is used as the feedstock. With current cost of animal fat of 15 cents per pound (one half of that for vegetable oil) the production cost of biodiesel is 36 cents per litre. In some regions of the country animal fat prices are even lower and the production costs of biodiesel will also be lower. With the tax incentive introduced by the Ontario government, it is likely that one or two biodiesel plants could be commercially viable.

Biodiesel is not yet fully accepted by engine manufacturers, which is likely to slow its rate of market penetration. If biodiesel follows the trend of low level ethanol blends set in the early 1980’s it may take up to five years for the engine manufacturers to fully accept the fuel. There does not appear to be any reasons why the engine manufacturers will not eventually accept low level (B20) blends of biodiesel.

There are no safety or environmental issues with respect to the expanded use of biodiesel in Canada. The fuel has a higher flash point than diesel fuel and is biodegradable. Biodiesel has completed the Tier 1 and Tier 2 health effects required by the US EPA before new fuels can be fully commercialized. The EPA has not required Tier 3 testing for biodiesel.

The one property of biodiesel that may impede its development in Canada is its cold weather flow properties. There are solutions to the cold weather problems, either additives or special diesel blending fuels but they will add cost to the product. There may also be some fleets that park their vehicles indoors that can tolerate biodiesels cold weather characteristics.

Biodiesel blends will reduce the particulate matter, carbon monoxide, and VOC emissions of diesel engines. There may be small increases in NOx emissions depending on the characteristics of the biodiesel and the blending rate. All emission impacts are essentially linear with respect to the volume of biodiesel in the blend.

[Vader]

Just a comment on the acceptance by engine manufacturers.

I have heard that John Deere is shipping their new tractors with a full tank of bio-diesel blended fuel. Not sure what percentage.

When the diesel engine was invented it was designed to run on peanut oil. Diesel fuel came later.