Ethanol

[Vader]

Parsley, you are absolutely right. The buyer determines what is "best". In fact in a IP progam there must be a buyer willing to pay the costs of such an IP system, otherwise it doesn't make economic sense.

[parsley]

There is a problem here with who is a buyer and who is a seller. And what is crap.

In Eastern Canada, the farmer is the seller and there are unlimited export buyers. I am talking about this kind of buyer. One who pays what the seller is willing to sell to him for. The farmer knows value. He feeds his family on it on it, Vader.

In Western Canada, the farmer is the seller and the CWB is the sole buyer for the export market.

The CWB buyer takes ownership of the grain and legally owns it and sends the farmer a partial/cheque for it.

My point is I don't think the CWB even knows which grain is valuable. I don't think the CWB knows or understands what the marketplace wants, either.

The main value of the role of the CWB is to protect CWB jobs by dumping the grain, but that doesn't help me, the farmer.

Is it maybe a little easier to dump top quality grain Vader, and look good at the Minister's Barb-b-que, and a little more difficult to dump "crap", as you succinctly describe it? Quick and slick?

My point was the CWB doesn't even know what value can actually be. "Crap" can be valuable, Vader, and good marketers know that.

Parsley

[silverback]

Well put Parsley.

[Vader]

I borrowed the terminology "crap" from silverback as he suggested that was what he might have to sell.

The confusion about who is the buyer and who is the seller is an important point. Parsley argues that the CWB is the buyer and that is normally the position of those who I would term "detractors". Those who believe that the CWB represents their best interests are more inclined to view the CWB as selling their grain for them.

So the question as to whether the CWB is a buyer of your grain or a seller of your grain is not so much a legal issue (as Parsley would want to define it to support her position) as it is a philosophical issue based on whether you believe in famers exercising market power through single desk selling.

[charliep]

I have to put on my Alberta Market Choice hat. If if is philosophy and not law, why is the CWB act necessary? Why have farmers gone to jail?

I also note that accredited exporters do most of the business on behalf the CWB. Most grain is sold FOB Canadian port (loaded vessel) unless things have changed. The accredited exporters providing additional services (ie. ocean frieght). There is a complicated relationship between accredited exporters, end user buyers and the CWB but that is the subject of another thread. When the smoke clears, business/pricing is done on a competitive basis with wheat supplies available from other exporters.

I also note the multi national you mention is a member of the Canadian National Millers Association and if I remember correctly they are supporters of the CWB. I assume they support the CWB in this matter because it suits their business interests. You can correct me.

[parsley]

Let's take a closer look, Vader.

For those farmers who have to sell their grain to the CWB, and then buy it back again, ownership is an important issue.

You understand full well, Vader that the CWB is a buyer of grain. A buyer. (Why else would I have to buy my grain BACK from the Board if they did not have legal ownership?)

And being the buyer of all Western wheat and barley for export, they have a youknowwhatkindofload of grain they own.

1. The CWB can eat it.

2. The CWB can burn it (In fact that is what they told Manitoba farmers to do with fusarium wheat a few years ago because the CWB didn't want to market "crap" like that, Vader, even though it was very valuable in the USA if the Manitoba farmers had been allowed to market their own grain.

3, The CWB can peddle it at firesale prices.

And if you bloody don't believe #3, would someone please post last years price of CWB wheat and barley (WHAT THE FARMER PUT IN HIS POCKET) on this site. Show me the money, Vader.

Your words have no credibility Vader. What the CWB says it gets for farmers and what the farmers actually get in their pocket at the end of the year are entirely different figures.

I know crap when I hear it Vader.

Guys like Silverback ask really important questions like, "Why do I have to pool my grain with yours?"

If you gave Silverback the true answer, Vader, it would be this:

"You have to pool the grain, because then CWB employees and CWB hacks are guaranteed a job"

Parsley