In simple terms......the CWB is a joke

[TOM4CWB]

Vader;

Would the CWB be part of your vision for Canola and Biofuel?

[sshiels]

Silverback...if you are making $ on every acre you seed, then taking 25% out of production is silly indeed. However, with commodity prices where they are, is it silly to take 25% out of production, through summerfallow or whatever, if you are actually losing $ on those acres? I know that you are not farming to lose money, but in poor years, isn't it important to lose less?

[Vader]

tom4cwb,

My vision is as I stated and that is for farmers to be owners of value added bio-energy business. There are many different ways to get there, and the CWB may in fact be one of them but not under the current legislation or governance model.

I note that the government is willing to look at providing some rebates on the high energy costs to some users. Wouldn't it be grand if the energy rebates were based on bio-fuel alternatives (only). The objective would be to move toward a renewable energy base, lower CO2 emissions, and create a sustainable agriculture sector.

[wd9]

Vader, for canola, to become biodiesel it is a simple process using lye and alcohol and some heat to remove the glycerin. The process is called de-esterification. The glycerin can be burned to provide the heat to the process.

Given the price of diesel today, the money is in burning canola, not eating it.

[TOM4CWB]

Vader;

If you don't consider the present CWB "worthy" of taking up the challenge respecting biofuel, what changes would you make to the CWB so it could be an acceptable marketing partner?

[furrowtickler]

Silverback.. there are three families trying to live off this farm, "we" are just looking for solutions to help grow the best crops possible while reducing our input costs. I refuse to cut back on inputs to a point to where it is not feasible at all.
FNA is helping in a small way with clear-out41, lets all hope they can get in the fert side of inports.
It,s not that we do not need all the acres, the acres are just not producing profits giving todays input costs plain and simple, no matter if you farm 500ac or 10,000ac. If you farm by yourself or with multiple family members we are all headed in to a heap of trouble shortly if not allready.
I love the idea of bio-diesel and we are years behind, but now is the time to get it rolling for sure.
As well, we are considering something like lentils as a green manure crop as part of our chem fallow plan.
I would rather make money on a few less seeded acres than lose money seeding all my acres. If this choice is not clear to you now it will by spring when you do your cost/return spreadsheets.
Silerbak, by the way , don't judge a book by it's cover, there is a family farm in our area that "farms" 10,000 ac... but there is four brothers with families and a father so break it all down and the 2000ac farmer is farming more land.
This is not the point anyway, we all need a more cost effective way to grow crops and get back to positive returns so we can be proud to be farmers, instead of being prcieved as wealfare cases.

[TOM4CWB]

Furrowtickler;

The CWB system has and is totally destroying grain agriculture in the "designated area"

HOW you ask?

1. Last spring, 2004 April, a major sale of feed grains should have been booked and sold into the export market, 3-4mmt of wheat and barley at far above the costs of production when this opportunity presented itself.

2. This Summer, another opportunity of $2.70 Dec 05 corn presented opportunity for profitable cross hedges into the feed grain market. 3mmt could have easily have been gathered from carry over, and another 3mmt from 05 production been sold.

These were the obligations of a prudent marketer that were not done. The CWB system prevented other marketers like LDC, Bunge, Cargill, and our own SWP/AGRICORE UNITED from doing simular programs.

This is certainly not a joke any more... unless you are in supply management or are a livestock producer.

This is not funny.

The Government of Canada is destroying the equity of generations of grain farmers in western Canada.

3.

[silverback]

Funny, I see no response from Vader.

[rockhound]

Just wondering, no one on here is that concerned that the CWB cost take somewhere between .90 and $1.10 bushel over the pool price out of our pockets. If this is what it cost so the CWB can give our wheat away the board huggers can have the CWB. Just let me market my own grain if I go broke at least I have control of whether or not to sell my wheat for the price offered on a daily basis. I'm tried of pool my grain for the better of everyone but me....

[TOM4CWB]

Rockhound;

This joke comes close to explaining the CWB management:

During a visit to the mental asylum, a visitor asked the director what the criteria was that defined whether or not a patient should be institutionalized.
" Well," said the director, "we fill up a bathtub. Then we offer the patient a teaspoon, a teacup and a bucket and ask the patient to empty the bathtub."
"Oh, I understand," said the visitor. "a normal person would choose the bucket as it is larger than the spoon."
"No," answered the director, smiling. "A normal person would pull the plug."


Are any people who are responsible with common sense; in charge of managing the CWB sales decisions?

Isn't the definition of insanity:

DOing the same thing over and over, yet expecting a different result/outcome each time...

[Vader]

Rockhound -get your facts straight.... check the CWB financial statement. http://www.cwb.ca/en/about/annual_report/pdf/2003-04_annual-report-05.pdf

CWB admin expenses were $3.67 per bushel in 2004 for the wheat pool account, which is about 10 cents per bushel.

[agstar77]

You all seem to miss the point. No matter what system we market with, at current world prices we are producing at a loss! So why should we turn a wheel next spring?

[wd9]

To back up agstar77's comment:

Canola oil is priced at $600 per tonne. Specific Gravity of canola is .92 which gives 1085 litres so it's about 55 cents per litre. You get 450 litres of oil from a tonne of canola seed, on average. Taking $250 a tonne for the producer amount (bit high I guess), it's still around 55 cents. It costs about 5 cents to make biodiesel.

Now the fun part, diesel at 85 cents (very conservative) per litre which is about 1.4 times as much as canola oil (85 cents over 60 cents). 1.4 times $250 which is $350. Throw in a meal sale, based on protein value - especially with rising cost of nitrogen, canola today is worth as a bare bones, bargain priced, fire sale minimum, $400.

Are you selling your canola at its value?

[charliep]

How much of the 85 cents a litre for diesel is taxes? What would transportation and blending costs be under assumption could be a 5 or 10 % blend?

I note that ethanol prices have actually been below gas prices in the US over the past year with blending capacity the issue. Bringing biodiesel capacity on line is a 2 to 3 year process.

Educating users is an even longer process. How many of your city friends stop specifically at Husky or Mohawk because of the ethanol?

The Husky ethanol plant at Lloydminster plus others that are already operating in SK./MB and others that are in diferent stages of development are signs of progress.

[wd9]

However, lobbying for tax exemption on products is 1000 easier and more successful than asking for a subsidy. In order to get an industry off the ground, economics have to make sense and they do today given the prices. Also for a new industry that shows sustainability without subsidy, good for the environment, promotes diversity in industry, promotes job creation, helps with Kyoto, concessions on tax are quite easy to negotiate. Come to the government with this as opposed to we need 25 cents per litre subsidy to begin, you can well imagine the response.

Minus taxes on diesel the value of canola is less, granted, however, the true value of canola is not $250 per tonne. It is a lot more which was only to example Agstar77's comment.

I'm sure someone with access to all the numbers can come up with an exact value for it.