Milling Oats vs Milling Wheat

[Vader]

Parsley, I believe you were called an extremist because you made the unwise comparison to the holocaust.

[agstar77]

Exactly! I really am not bothered by his marketing views just irrational way they are expressed.

[silverback]

Just answer the questions.

[agstar77]

We grow wheat ,canola and oats. As for getting a competitive price, probably not since world grain trade is controlled by a few vertically integrated multinationals. If you wish to sell your crops at some point no matter how clever you think you are, they will tell you what price you will receive. I am not saying this is good or bad just the way is. For you free market types to insist you can beat these guys !! Perhaps one time or another you will but like in Vegas the house always wins. If we could produce a crop nobody else could we could get those premiums, however since my wheat is as good as yours, the only way you will out market me would be to sell at a lower price. Yes if we had an American style support program all our costs would rise . At least we would be treated equally to U.S. farmers. No one should tell you what to grow and you do have a choice to work on those oil rigs as T4CWB suggests and not grow anything. It seems the answer might be for a lot of us to grow nothing to stop the bleeding. Good nite.

[parsley]

The main point of this discussion is not about how you react to my communication skills.

"Extremest" and "racist" are terms frequently dragged out as an abortive response, by those lacking adequate defenses, or their inability to concede a point, or unwilling to admit what they really stand for.

It would be no surprise if someone like Mr. Merimee, France's Past Ambassador to the UN, would scream "Extremist" or "Racist' at the first hint of being accused of his involvement in the Food for Oil scam.

It's an obvious ploy.

But, just so you don't get sidelined one more time, I want to remind you, agstar, that the crux of this discussion is about whether or not you support force and coercion to attain and continue YOUR common good...that being throwing farmers in jail for trying to sell theior own wheat.

Just answer the question. Then we'll know what you are once and for all.

And answer silverback's question which essentially asks, in your world, does the biggest gang represent the common good?

(That doesn't look good for you either as more and more farmers abandon the CWB.)

Looking forward to you finally answering,

37 years farming,
Parsley

[parsley]

Vader,

My example is pregnant with the "common good" theme. Adolph H. would have argued with you that in his world, his common good was to rid the earth of certain groups of people.

Using coercion and force.

As I said in my earlier thread,

"When is the ‘common-good’ actually bad? According to whom? And more particularly what do you do when the so-called common-good turns bad?

These are questions you would be wise to weigh, Vader, and then answer this question,

"Is it justified to use force against farmers to maintain the CWB's common-good goal of the single desk?

Parsley

[agstar77]

I believe in the rule of law . Since the laws in this country were drawn up by duly elected representatives, I feel they should be upheld . If that means jail or fines so be it. If you wish to change the laws through legitimate means go for it. It seems the majority of Canadians do not share your views since the Reform party/ Conservatives can't get a majority. The other means would be to run for the board of directors and change the system . Since you can't seem to do either of these just stand there and throw stones at fellow producers who are trying to get the best returns possible under difficult circumstances. I could give you proof that pooled marketing works but I don't believe you are interested in hearing that or believe it. Yours is an idealogical fervor about marketing whereas I am ambivalent to the marketing system but I haven't seen anything better proposed. If I thought we would be better off under your scenario I would support you but haven't proved your case that we would be better off. The risk of destroying the present system is greater than some hope of a reward of premiums for a handful of large producers near the U.S. border. The real problem is the depressed state of ag commodities and high input costs. Being able to truck grain across the border without a permit really isn't a priority. My family has farmed here for 65 years and I have seen the highs and lows . T4 is right if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen.

[TOM4CWB]

Agstar;

Well said.

May bring to your attention that in the bean industry in Alberta we have a Pool (Agricore United Bean Plant) that works very well on contracted acres.

No Monopoly.

Any other Bean contractor or Marketer can come into Alberta and contract acres for themselves... without those bean growers being threatened with jail time IF they contract to alternative non-pooling agencies.

We co-exist without a problem.

THis is the real issue.

Now how can we get to the bean situation of market choice with freedom?

[TOM4CWB]

Parsley;

My brother's pastor had a word of wisdom yesterday!

There are two ways that will usually end a conversation;

1. Compare them to A Hitler in some way;

2. Judge them and Tell them they are going to either Heaven or Hell.

Wise words we all need to heed!

[agstar77]

As I said before we did have a voluntary pooling system of sorts when there were real farmer operated Pools. Now you may be pooling with a multinational such as ADM. This seems to be working for you although since we can't look at ADM's books we don't know what percentage they taking not that it matters. The point is under this scenario we could pool with ADM Cargill , SWP ,Bunge etc. Each of these pools would compete against one another with the same product. How would they compete ? Better service to their customers, the buyers? Or maybe a cheaper price after grain handlers work on volume not price. Who would the sell to ? Their own subsidiaries in the milling business . Do you see the conflict? We really don't have any leverage over these operations as individual farmers unless we produce something they can't get somewhere else at a lower price. Would they be nice to us and get the highest return possible? Until you can answer that question, I think I will stick to the present system.

[agstar77]

In Parsley's books I'll end up in the hot place as a non believer LOL.

[Vader]

parsley, I think it is simply inappropriate to bring either A. Hitler or mention his atrocities in a civilized debate. Why did you do that? Maybe you should have attended you brothers pastors sermon. Perhaps you could actually learn something.