Milling Oats vs Milling Wheat

[melvill]

I just reread my previous post. I think I probably came across more strongly that I had intended. However, let's keep this to a type-and-learn-and-debate.

I've learned lately that quite a few producers read all these posts but never add anything of their own. They do say they learn lots.

[parsley]

Jackflash,

Your questions are valid.

I agree that oats are a dandy good cash crop.

agstar seems to think that premiums cannot be captured by the individual,
but history shows otherwise.

Don Mitchell shows in his book called The Politics of Food, that Wheat Board marketing just doesn't cut it, by stating:

"On the other hand, measures such as the continuation of the Canadian Wheat Board and the price Stabilization Act in 1944 were aimed at keeping prices down for farm commodities"

"The farm price of commodities advanced only 17 per cent from 1949 to 1970, with the price of wheat virtually frozen from 1945 to 1972.

Farm income gains HAD to come from increased volume if they came at all"

"Farmers have managed to increase their average per-capita output by six-fold between 1951 and 1966 and they increased the total volume of Canadian Agricultural production by 40 per cent. But net farm income remained below the average for manufacturing wages in Canada."

So, right from the getgo, the governments and the bureaucrats put the screws to farmers. Money we should have gotten flowed elsewhere and that is why farmers are on this "produce more and more binge"

Those who eye-up the farmers' profits,(even their fellow-farmers' profits) think they can keep farmers under the control-thumb.

Farmers have done more than their share, they have been tremendous wealth-producers in this country,and we have earned the right not to be treated like children.From governments or bureaucrats.

Parsley

[JACKFLASH]

I beg the forum's pardon

[agstar77]

We can all bury our heads in the sand and blame the marketing system for low prices , Oat prices have not increased since oats were taken away from the CWB( in real dollars). There are more serious problems than marketing. As I have said before there will not be a real change in thinking until supermarket shelves are empty.

[parsley]

agstar;

There is nothing more serious for the farm community than not emough money. And I don't know about your neck of the woods, but in mine, farmers hurt for cash.

Actually selling what we grow gets that cash.

To me, more money in the pocket, not continuing the ideology of 'the Wheat Board with the three pillars from the Dark Ages' is crucial.

To me, burying our heads means to continue with the system that makes us poor.

This is why we cannot be partners, agstar.
We look at the world differently. We look at marketing differently. You trust the government run CWB to look after your interests whilst I liase with other farmers so we can run our own business.

And that is exactly why we need choice.

JACKFLASH,
We don't grow wheat and I am still mad!
And that is because every "elevator and feed mill"... etc.is a "works for the general advantage of Canada".

It essentially effects every sale I make for all grains.

Parsley

[agstar77]

We did have farmers working with farmers when the original three wheat pools existed. Then the survival of the fittest mentality took over with the three pools competing against one another. This led to their demise and the takeover of the grains industry by large corporations with no farmer input. Most farmers do not market their products , they simply shop for the best price among a few buyers. As for being partners, that would imply that we would share in the proceeds from commodity sales. Iam willing to share through pooling if everyone is better off for it and it means the survival of farm families. What is your position on sharing for the common good or do you believe agriculture will be better off if everyone looks out for their own interests at the expense of all others?

[parsley]

Good Morning agstar,

Sorry, I was away yesterday, I want to address your question.

Sharing for agreed-upon 'common good' is wonderful. Most families function like this. The Lion's Club. Churches.

But there is a tremendous difference between vouluntary participation and forced participation.

If you have to threaten farmers with jail to make them deal with the CWB, everyone loses. The common good you dream about becomes so diminished, it has lost its' value.

You should well know how it works in families. Force a child to farm when they want to be an architect and they will not thrive.Neither will the farm.

Should I force one religion on a population in the name of the common good, agstar, as is done in Iraq?

Force simply doesn't work over the long haul either.

In the 1990, National Geographic atlas, the statistics are stark:

The Per Capita Income of Switzerland was $21,250.00 per year, with 100% literacy in their population.

The Per Capita Income of China was $300.00 per year with a literacy of 66%.

China's policies were adopted based upon your very same political 'common-good' goal, with the force of the state backing it up. You'd love it there because everyone gets exactly the same.

Their human rights policies are based upon the 'common-good' goal.

Their monetary policies are based upon the 'common-good' goal.

But where would most Agri-villers sooner live?

I believe in building and working together, and volunterering, and giving, and participating, and co-operating, and partnering, and liasing with the right to chose who my partners will be.

It is a personal philosophy that will enable me to fulfil my immediate goals of acquiring more cash for paying my phone bills. And my longer term goals of educating the family. And long, long term goals of seeing agriculture actually survive.

I do not subscribe to bullying, or jailing, or coercing, or fining, or commanding customs to perscribe ascertained forfeitures,or decreeing, (using a political CWB vehicle), simply to pool profits, though.

A willing partner who WANTS to work and build with me, agstar, instead of someone who is forced to work with me, will inevitably produce both better short term and long term results.

And if you really examine your own political philosophy agstar, my basic question to you is this...do you condone voluntary participation or forced participation?

Parsley

[agstar77]

I believe in freedom of choice for most things as long as it does not interfere with the rights of others or where it is contrary to the common good. I have never been forced to grow grain for any group or been forced to sell my grain through any group. If I wish to receive benefits from a pooling marketing agency then I can sell through them. We can argue all day about the fairness of buybacks and other mechanisms but the fact is they exist. In an ideal world we could have a totally open market and everyone would be treated fairly but you and I know that wouldn't happen. The good news is that we can debate all these issues and perhaps we will find a way to let everyone do their own thing without killing the industry. The real problem is the return farmers receive under any marketing scheme. Do you believe U.S. farmers would survive without massive subsidies? How do we increase returns ? Decrease production? Get better international trade arrangements ?

[silverback]

Agstar, my question is this.

What grows best in your little corner of the world?? Do you grow it? Do you get paid a competitive price for it?

In my little corner of the world, the best agricultural product to grow is wheat, then barley, then canola. The weather is dictating this to me lately. So if I choose to farm, the best product I can grow is wheat, but how do I get the highest price I can for it? Can I contact anyone I want to find out if they would like to buy it? No. So I end up hoping the wheat board is doing that for me. Are they? It doesn't look like it to me. If I am looking for the highest price for my wheat so I can keep farming, it appears that I would be better off selling it outside of Canada. However, the gov't has made this nearly impossible and illegal if I don't jump through their hoops. Excuse me if I don't think I should be in jail for trying to deliver some grain to someone who will pay me enough to make a profit.

Is it so wrong for me to be allowed to do what is best in my corner and you to do what is best in your corner? Maybe if I get more friends together than you can get, we can come over and tell you what you can do on your farm. Would you like that? That would just be "common good" wouldn't it??

[parsley]

agstar,

You know full well that buybacks and regulations are the mechanisms that the state employs to force my grain through the Board.

(Just recall the 'little' regulation saying if you have a number on your arm, you head to Auchwitz)

Look at it full in the face. It's force, agstar. Force because the threat of jail and fines are real.

Sorry, agstar, but I don't ever want to think like you and I don't want people, who believe employing force to achieve their ends is legitimate, being my partner...in anything.

The CWB is like a marriage gone bad. One by one, the single deskers take a look at their CWB bride, and simply leave, thinking, she is a ugly mess.

Just acknowldging the single desk marriage was on the rocks for years, isn't enough. Slowing bleeding from financial death isn't enough. You have to know when to quit, and move on, not hang on until you collapse.

That CWB bride has proven, over 60 years, she's just not right for what the farm community needs, agar.

Parsley