Milling Oats vs Milling Wheat

[Vader]

parsley, show us some numbers. What is the profit from milling your own grain? What are you selling it for in Canada? What would you sell it for in the US? What is the cost of the buy-back for flour that you sell from your farm into the US?

[parsley]

Vader,

You seem to have missed my point earlier. Again.

You ask

"What is the profit"? That is irrelevant.

and

"Price inside Canada"? That is irrelevant.

What model is the grinder? That is irrelevant.

What bags should I use? That is irrelevant.

These are the discussion points that are on the table:

1. I can mill my wheat into flour on my farm.
2. I can sell the flour throughout Canada.
3. I cannot export the flour because
the CWB will not give me the license to export the flour.
4. The CWB's export prohibition of flour contravenes Article 309 of NAFTA because my flour is captive in Canada.
5. I have no access to the US market with grain I have kept ownership of, and that hinders value-adding.

Is that a little clearer?

Parsley

[TOM4CWB]

Vader;

Uncertainty is the biggest inhibitor of investment of any factor... and for good reason.

Control of input costs of a product is key to making a business viable on a long term basis.

THe CWB prevents certainty and rewards lazy marketers... who would sit back and do nothing... but say they deserve to be paid for their lazy streak and vote!

[Vader]

parsley you must be mistaken. There is not prohibition on the export of flour. Canada is exporting lots of flour.

Tom, uncertainty? The cwb provides certainty to the flour milling industry. CWB prices to millers are very much in line with US futures markets. This is a certainty. You are mistaken again.

[parsley]

Vader,

You want to miss my point because it is a difficult one to suck up.

The CWB allows export of flour milled from Board grain, thereby supporting the big corps that you rant about,all of them making flour; bags flowing across the border, grinding Board grain, which is grain that has passed through the Board, just like oats through the horse.

BUT

The CWB will not allow a PRODUCER to export flour milled from his own grain on his own farm. (Producer grain has never passed through the Board.)

Corporations go.

Producers no go.

This is called prohibition.

Shame on you.

I am a producer. The CWB does not help in adding to my bottom line if I am prohibited from selling my flour into another country.

The CWB consciously prevents me from selling my value-added products. Value-added becomes value-lacking as a direct result of CWB policy.

Instead of encouraging producers to expand and develop and prosper, the CWB concentrates on enforcing the policy that shrinks and discourages development, and causes economic hardship to the very people who pay their salaries.

Shame on you twice.
Parsley

[Vader]

parsley, you still haven't shown me the numbers. How does the CWB prevent you from exporting flour. Have you tried? Can you make money at it?

Are you making flour or is this all hypothetical?

[parsley]

Vader,
Why are you so hung up on what the numbers are? Shouldn't the principles be consistent?

Or are you hinting that a flour mill that kicks out 300 bags per day isn't able to provide as much "co-operation incentive" as the mill that kicks out 30,000 bags per day?

At the beginning of this thread, JACKFLASH said, "...the 70's ..selling oats ...getting 98 cents/bu. and maybe another 30 cents.
Now you can bank on 2.00/bu, by forward pricing."

As a producer, JACKFLASH not only can sell the oats he grows, but he can value-add if he choses. An idea foreign to the Board.

My point is I cannot sell the flour made from my own grain into the USA because the Board will not allow it.

Value-adding becomes uneconomical for producers looking to expand. DA farmers don't deserve a Western strangler like the Wheat Board.

Producers are looking for change. Big time change. The kind of change, Vader, that will make any argument you make, irrelevant.

Parsley

[Vader]

I am interested in the numbers because you are mixing things up. First you say that the CWB will not allow flour exports from individuals into the US. This is not so.

Then you say that the CWB makes it uneconomical for producers to export into the US. Show me the numbers.

[parsley]

Vader,

Flour made from producer-held grain that has never gone through the Board, cannot export.

Non Wheat Board flour is not the same as flour/(wht) bought from the Wheat Board.

Non-wheat Board flour puts money in the my pocket.

Flour that has passed through the Board makes the staff larger and me poor

Parsley

[silverback]

Why did Vader not answer my questions? Again? The Liberals are good at not answering direct questions either.

[silverback]

Vader, who cares if this is hypothetical? Just answer the questions that have been asked, if you can.

Is there another website somewhere where more CWB people hang out? Perhaps the CWB have hired Vader to specifically work on this web site. I wonder how much it pays? Funny how no others will wade in on it, they must look in every now and then?

[parsley]

Silverback,

Direct questions, for sure, but never answers, only evasion. Not a disconnect either, just an evasion.

1.Maybe we're not asking the right Board-friendly questions.

2. Maybe there are %500.00 per evening per diems.

3.Maybe Vader aced the Evasion 101 class the Board teaches.

By the way, does anyone online sell directly to the distilleries? They buy volumes and volumes of grain. For example, the distillery at Gimlii, Manitoba where they make Crown Royal Whiskey?

Parsley

[silverback]

It really is ridiculous.

I try and ask simple questions that should be very easy to answer, instead they are either ignored or twisted. I have a feeling that perhaps this is getting a little too close to answering the legitimate question as to what purpose the board serves. If they have only evolved to keeping the feed grain sector happy and to stopping any possible competition in the flour industry, they have lost their way. Why else would they make it so difficult to process and export your own product?

We shipped some rye to Alberta Distillers a few years back. Pretty simple and good people to deal with.

[TOM4CWB]

Vader;

I can not direct contract with my local Miller at a set pre-contracted price.

I can sell to anyone in the Canola Industry... years into the future... at a set price. And we do this... and have done it for years.

Show me how a direct pre-priced connection is allowed between my farm and a Miller, for HRS, HWS, HRW or Durum.

This is what extracting a premium is all about... allowing a relationship that is profitable for everyone in the chain!

AND THAT IS A CERTAINTY that we could all appreciate!

Where does the CWB accomodate this type of healthy relationship Vader?

[Vader]

What a bunch of whiners. Just because you disagree with the CWB and you want out, doesn't mean that it is going to be so.

The purpose of the CWB (IMHO as T4 would say), is to prevent farmers from competing with farmers and driving down the price of grain. This goes back to the 1920's when the prairie grain pools were formed by farmers. Even then there were many who disagreed and would not join.

Today we have single desk selling which is legislated. Just like we have legislated anti-smoking laws, seat belt laws and parking laws (which apparently can get you sent to jail).

Parsley you can whine all you want, quote chapter and verse of the Act where you think there is a potential loophole.

Wedino, you can find fault with advertising campaigns. I suppose you also found fault with the "bull" add.

Silverback, ask me again. I am so confused by your multiple questions.

We all post here for one reason only. We get our jollies from making our points to the 10 or so anti-wheat board participants. (Oh and that one other person who does not post and we think might be swung over to our thinking).

We should all get a life.