Organic

[lakenheath]

As for the weed seeking robots. They may be developed some day, then bought up by a company like Monsanto for 10 times the value of the company that invented them, then the robots will be placed nicely on the R&D shelf.

[Vader]

tsk! tsk! lakenheath. Not another conspiracy theory!

I know many farmers are now firmly in the no-till camp. I swithched to no-till because my land started blowing so badly back in the mid-80's. I have been continuous cropping since then. I think that my soil organic matter is up and now even with spring and fall tillage I do not see any wind erosion.

I have gone out and repurchased a harrow packer like the one I traded. I bought a rod-weeder and a tandem disk. In place of chemicals I am now burning more diesel fuel. Hopefully one day soon I will be burning biodiesel.

My local co-op dealer tells me that he can bring in biodiesel from the states at $0.85 CDN landed. He says he won't have time to be blending come summer but when the temperature warms up I could burn 100% biodiesel. There should be a HUGE carbon credit for doing that!

[parsley]

The secret to growing organic crops is rotation, rotation, rotation. There are good rotations and bad ones.

But that is not a marketing topic.

In marketing, the closer the farmer is to the end user (the old 'field to table' notion) the better the money in my pocket.

The layers that separate the farmer from the the consumer, eat up the profits on most farms.

Organic farmers bank solid cash from marketing directly. That is why I am so keen to get that useless CWB layer OUT of organic wheat and barley marketing. The CWB is of no value to organic farmers.

Parsley

[silverback]

Vader,

Are you saying that you have now gone 100% organic?? How many tillage passes are you doing per year per field? Did you mean 2 plus seeding? In this area I am interested in one pass/year, if that can be accomplished and keeping weeds in check with a proper rotation that would be great. However, what rotation beats back quackgrass?? Summerfallow? Still wondering.

[lakenheath]

When does quackgrass emerge? How do you currently control it. We don't have it in our area.

[lakenheath]

Sorry to go off the marketing path. But the topic is hot right now. And it is somewhat marketing related (changing production methods to capture better markets and reduce overproduction).

[parsley]

silverback,
If you are "interested in one pass/year", then the development of a perennial wheat could solve your needs.

Parsley

[silverback]

Quackgrass is a perennial that grows by spreading roots and some by seed. It is best controlled by preharvest glyphos, but you never really get rid of it as it comes in from the edges every year. Once it gains a foothold it is very, very hard to eliminate without glyphos. Tillage just moves it around.

Are you saying you have never seen it?? If so, Lucky you.

[Jman]

lakenheath:

Lucky you...never to see quackgrass.

Organic growers who know how to fight this weed are truely "Agronomists". They could teach your local fly-by-night chemical rep salesmen a thing or two.

Agropyron repens, also known as "Quack grass" or "sudden field of fire" is a perennial that comes out of dormancy immediately in spring (one of the first green things on the field).

If you unfortunately cultivated in the previous fall, all you accomplished was choipping the rhizomes (underground stems) of the original parent plants and created a bunch of new individual plants that will also begin to laterally spread, eventually encompassing entire sections of your fields.
It's a nightmare, and worse than Canada Thistle (Cirsium arvense). If you farm in the drier areas of the prairies, a few discing passes (not cultivator) passes duting a fallow rotation will set it back for a few years. If you farm in the wetter part of the prairies, the discing passes, may just spread the weed even more.

I dont thing there is any commercial crop that can out-compete it. If somebody can find a good commercial use for the seed and fibre of this crop, many of us would be millionaires. That is until voluntary wheat and canola would over-take it (ha ha ha).

[lakenheath]

Sounds like a nasty weed. We have never come across that, but Canada Thistle is just starting to show up in our area last year, so you never no. I guess winter cereals like winter wheat or fall rye wouldn't be much good if Quackgrass germinates before the cereal comes out of dormancy in the spring. Winter cereals are excellent in roatation for wild oat control.

I guess the ever debatable green fallow or "plow-down" crop would help in controlling this weed. But the economic positives of that are questionalbe.

Not sure if the so-called alleopathic effects of crops such as clover, oats and rye would suppress that type of weed either. I for one am not willing to go back to any system that requires multiple tillage passes to turn the land black for weed control. One year like in the 80's and you could lose 10 years of good.

No doubt glyphosate has been an incredible tools for farmers. But again, we have to ask ourselves what are the long-term impacts of glyphosate use. Denmark is attempting to ban glyphosate use as it has shown up in surface and underground water. Round-up resistant weeds are showing up in the U.S. I am running across weeds now that require up to 2 litres per acre burn-off ($16.00 an acre for burn-off is rediculous) like dandelions. Prickly lettuce needs an additional 1/2 litres to kill along with 2-4D, so you can't use this for you pulse burn-off. Foxtail and kochia both need a good blast for pre=seed burn-off. All of the above are reason I am taking off the Atom-Jets for some fields and using good old sweeps, getting a guaranteed kill and saving on the burn-off.

[Vader]

I have seen quack grass roots where the tip of the root is as hard as a nail and sharp as a pin. I think that it could penetrate cement.

It is a grass and if you are plowing down a green manure crop and can turn the quack grass up onto the surface and dry it out you can kill it. It will be difficult in a wet year and in crop it will keep on spreading and choking out virtually everything.

Silverback, I am 100% organic and have been for a few years now. I have a lot to learn and I have been doing things differently each year. As parsley says rotation, rotation, rotation.

I would probably say one year in four must be a green manure and another will probably be a pulse. One of the two remaining years will be flax. And lastly a cereal. The lentils and flax tend to have some of the highest organic premiums. As parsley mentioned $23.50 per bushel for flax. Two years ago when organic flax was short it peaked at over $50.00 per bushel. Early in 2005 coming off a short 2004 crop lentils peaked at 90 cents per pound. Today people are talking 40-50 cents BUT there is very little movement.

It seems the organic buyers have adopted the same strategy as conventional buyers and are backing out of the market and waiting for prices to fall. For those who have not contracted their organic flax buyers are talking about 18-19.00 per bushel.

I hope that the organic growers are disciplined sellers and will not accept these offers. But when the banker taps you on the shoulder he makes a compelling statement.

[parsley]

Just a few comments lakenheath,

It is so easy to find all kinds of agronomic info. But marketing is another whole ball game.

Marketing is so interesting because you learn about people.

I'll bet that nearly every guy reading these threads has bought a diamond ring sometime or another.

Why diamond? Why not labradolite or ammolite? Or opal?

Top notch diamond marketing for decades!

You paid top price for something you wanted for the woman. Top price. And the diamond maker listened to the consumer. You. White gold, yellow gold, one carat or two. every description and price range. 14k or 24k? For a bloody piece of rock.

Really!

Now that's creative marketing.


You got what you wanted for your woman and the ring maker got the cash.

Organics works because we listen to our buyers. Our consumers.

And consumers are never wrong.

When you read in the paper about food industry types who are going to "educate the consumer", it smacks of paternalism. Consumers are becoming tough and smart and they have a whole world to chose from.

Farmers need to find out what the consumers they are targeting actually want. Do you know who buys your product? What disposable income do they have? Are you compensated enough to make a living from your targeted market? Do you get feedback from your consumers?

It is my observation that when farmers become more interested in the methods of production rather than the food product(the end product), the consumer wants to buy, that farmer's market will start to shrivel and prices will decline.

Marketing is crucial to getting the money you need.

Parsley

[parsley]

Addendum to Vader:

This is the kind of thinking that will run organic into the ground:

"I hope that the organic growers are disciplined sellers and will not accept these offers."

Good grief. $18.00 per bushel is a good price. A damn good price.

Once again, you reflect that same old same old, worrying about what your neighbor is getting, blind to what is a good price, instead of establishing what is a profitable price for YOU; establishing what kind of customer YOU serve; and establishing what YOUR particular financial committments are.

My needs are different from someone elses.

If you are trying to re-design organics into the very conventional system organics rejected, if you are using the conventional template to 'get organics into copying CWB marketing , if you are trying to insert the equality equation into organic marketing, organics will surely be run into the ground by new entrants.

$18.00 a bushel and you advise some young guy with taxes to pay to 'don't sell'?

Go away.

Parsley

[Vader]

Parsley, you always overreact. I didn't advise anybody not to sell and I didn't say that 18.00 was not a good price or that I would not be prepared to accept that. I simply observe that the market can pay upwards of $50.00 per bushel and that 23.50 is better than 18.00.

Why are you jumping on me?????

[parsley]

Clarify your words, Vader: "I hope that the organic growers are disciplined sellers and will not accept these offers."

Is it the

1. "$23.50/ bu flax or the

2. $50.00/ bu flax or the

3. 0.90/lb lentils or the

4. 0.40-.50/lb lentils or the

5. $18-19.00/ bu flax.

that you hope organic growers will not accept?

Parsley