Organic

[Vader]

Parsley,

why do you care what I hope?

[parsley]

You say, "I hope..organic growers...will not accept these offers."

I asked which offer.

Surely to goodness you can explain your own statement.

Parsley

[Vader]

parsley, I believe my english is perfectly clear and I still want to know why you care what I hope.

[parsley]

Your post reasons as would a grasshopper.

[wedino]

Very interesting thread. You've suggested growing your own nitrogen on previous threads, Vader. Have you figured what the cost per lb. is to produce it(N)? How do you replace phosphorus?

As for my farm, I've been in No till for 20 years. Quack grass was a problem at first, roundup was $24/litre, I tried to control it by spot spraying. As RU price came down I was able to eliminate quack. I find brome grass harder to control than quack. Foxtail barley is another that is tough in no till. I can't/don't grow winter cereals due to foxtail barley.

[lakenheath]

Vader, I don't think Parsely is attacking you or asking any outragous questions. Just answer him.

[lakenheath]

Wedino, I think phosphorus is an easier solution than N. Products like TagTeam and Jumpstart seem to work to make unavailable soil phos available to the plant. Whether enough is made availbe or not is another question.

[parsley]

Wedino,

I hate to get into this agronomic thing because this is a marketing thread, but I will say this:

A crucial part of our rotation is putting the field into forage, thereby building up nitrogen in the soil. Whilst it is rejuvenating, we market the combined forage seed, OR we pasture out the forage for cash.

The point is we have a cash crop at the same time we fertilize and clean up persistent weeds. Simplistically put, we market our fertilizer.

At one time, we were like Silverback, with never a thought to going organic; only interested in our livestock. And they were good to us.

But times change and Time demands changes. We're not in our 30's lakenheath! At some point you have to cut out some physical work that livestock demands.

Consumers don't buy typewriters anymore either, but that doesn't mean they are ineffective for those who don't want to use computers. If you want to continue using the typewriter, who am I to judge?

We are all Luddites by some measure, but the most important thing, as Silverback is so astute in pointing out, is that we get to choose.

Choice is what really matters. And when it comes to marketing, it is crucial.

Parsley

[wedino]

"Choice is what really matters. And when it comes to marketing, it is crucial."

I agree Parsley, 110%.

[Vader]

Lakenheath, I think that you wrong. I think that parsley is only concerned about personal attack and is simply looking for ammunition to use against me. Nevertheless I will explain. I have been told that for a long time the price of organic flax ran in the range of 18.00. Then there was a shortage and it ran up to $52.00, proving that the market can bear prices substantially higher than $18.00. Parsley has been able to market flax for $23.50 this winter. I would hope that producers would be paying attention to the market and would know that price is somewhat current. Certainly there will be those buyers who would prefer to see the price back down at the $18.00 level. And that is exactly where it will go if there are willing sellers. I would hope that producers would not willingly allow that to happen. Now if a producer wants to sell into that market and feels that it works for him or her then so be it.

I look at canola a few days ago when the price was dropping below the $5.00 level. If there were no willing sellers at $5.00 then the price would tend to rise as the market does have its requirements. However the price was falling which tells me that there were either willing sellers or the buyers were testing the resistance of the market. Perhaps the sellers won the day as the price seems to have strengthened again.

Can I be any more clear than that?

[Incognito]

Are you coming to Saskatoon next Friday for the CWB's major announcement, Vader? Or is the BOD and the bureaucrats still wrestling with the dynamics of the timing and the election; and the conundrum that it may cause if the Conservatives win a minority?

The Minister's loose lips can sink ships...

[Vader]

sounds like you know more than I do.

[parsley]

Vader, I find it amusing that you will scold organic farmes, saying:

"I would hope that producers would be paying attention to the market and would know that price is somewhat current"

Write this down, vader. Organic farmers have always marketed their own products and because they do, they DO pay attention and they DO stay current.

Organic marketing has served organic farmers very well. Farmers invest in co-operative shipping, not shipping co-operatives. Farmers invest in marketing co-operatively, instead of marketing co-operatives. The key inclusionary word here is FARMERS. No Government experts. No single desk prices. No CWB political donation deductions from our accounts.

Organics have understood that our buyers have budgets, too. We know when buyers have budgeted for $18.00 flax in his finished product,and if there is a supply shortage, that the end-user can only sustain $50.00 flax for a very short time and for a very small amount I am willing to make sure he gets his $18.00 flax so he stays in business, because I know my buyer.I am in touch with him.I need him to profit and he needs me to profit. It is a symbiotic relationship.


A $50.00 market was only an anomoly, vader, reflecting exceedingly tight supplies. The uninformed may conclude that organic growers should be disciplined and not sell abelow $50.00, but that would destroy either my breadmaker/snack bar manufacturer/etc. or else it would destroy my sales because he would source a substitute such as millet,amaranth etc. After all, The consumer has a spending limit, too.

I found your attempted supply and demand tutorial a little amusing, vader, considering you are the CWB's Mr. Single Desk of the Year.

Single desk pricing, which you stridently and actively promote on this site, is currently absent from organics, and the very reason why organics has thrived; so When you begin to comment on organic marketing, vader, claiming, "I hope that the organic growers are disciplined sellers and will not accept these offers", I really have no choice but to say that you really don't know or understand organic marketing, and that your particular kind of reasoning will reduce the organic prices farmers get, to the same financial junkyard the Wheat Board brags conventional farmers are lucky to get.

You market equality by force, and I market diversity with choice.

That's as personal as it gets.
Parsley

[lakenheath]

Parsley, where do you farm?

[parsley]

In Saskatchewan, lakenheath.

There are well over 1000 organic farmers in Saskatchewan, and unfortunately, many of the new entrants have the attitude that organics should be "managed" the same as conventional farming.

After all, some abandoned Conventional Agriculture, because the Banker wouldn't meet with them anymore, and they bring those same set of skills to the table. What can I say?

Conventional farming has been "managed" right into the deficital ground, and only the key players, the experts, in the industry can claim credit for it's failure; unfortunately, it's the actual farmer who has to exist on the remnant dollar exacted from their decisions.

And one of the biggest players in the Designated Area, with most of the say,(because they claim it to be so), and most of the resources to coerce farmers(using farmers' $$), and with the most influence at the Federal table (represented by a duly appointed Minister), is the infamous Canadian Wheat Board.

Their entourage occassionally moan at the appropriate time, on their way to depositing their inflation-protected cheques, but they are actually acutely aware of what they are doing, and what they are.

Next time you see them "working on your behalf", lakenheath, after all, you are the next generation, recall not only what they have done FOR my generation, but recall what they have done TO my generation.

It's decimated.

Make your decision. Should you leave, or should they?

Parsley