Organic

[lakenheath]

What does a CWB director make per year in salary?

[lakenheath]

Back to organics. I struggle with the concept. I am very much a farmer that is "attached" to the land. Everything organics stands for makes sense. The whole soil biology aspect and environmental stuardship role are what I like. But, you mention it to many people and they think you are nuts. But no means am I grasping. My financial ratios on my farm are healthy, but I often question our current model of agriculture and how we conventionally farm.

As for marketing, I like what I see in organics. But many organic farmers I talk to struggle with marketing. They tell me it is very difficult. What is your take on organci marketing?

[parsley]

We spent a winter studying everything we could source about organics before we committed the time and money.

Our foremost anxiety was, "What will the neighbors think?"!!

The new entrants struggle,(as did some East Berliners when the wall came down), mostly because many are accustomed to simply hauling to the elevator and waiting to "see what they got". They are waiting for "someone to do something" Worst kind of new entrant.

Let's face it. Building an entire counter-ag industry paralleling the conventional industry wasn't just an accident. But its here.And it's good for the farmer.

Organics readily trades and shares information, lakenheath.

We've never looked back.
Parsley

[Incognito]

Lake:

Careful: It may be just gossip.

http://www.cwb.ca/en/about/annual_report/pdf/2003-04_annual-report-03.pdf

BOD salaries are outlined in the link above.

[lakenheath]

Quite the salaries. I hope the per diems actually represent cost of travel etc. Otherwise that is a disgrace.

[lakenheath]

Funny you put it that way Parsley. I have spent many hours this winter and last winter researching organics. And in the end, one of my bigger concerns is "what will the farmer friends of mine and neighbours say?".

[parsley]

Incognito,

Thanks for that.

My problem is not the salary level itself, but that the salary is not linked in any way to performance.

Or to the crops.

Only to entitlement.

Parsley

[parsley]

lakenheath,

It's all about choices.

The choices you make for lakenheath's life.

When you can quietly look at yourself, and approve of the reasons for making a choice, you don't need anyone's nod of approval.

Embrace diversity. Equality is not all it's cracked up to be.

Parsley

[Vader]

parsley, you grew and sold organic flax.

Who were the people who ended up eating that flax? Did you meet them? Did you spend time explaining to them the health benefits of eating flax? did you tell them about the essential fatty acids? Did you tell them about the soluble and insoluble fibre? Did you tell them about the lignans? Did you show them the studies that have confirmed the specific health benfits relative to coronary disease and the digestive tract?

Parsley did you spend time with the consumer who bought your flax extolling the virtues of organic farming? Did you tell them that it is more environmentally friendly? Did you tell them about the time and effort you expend building the soil health and how you cope with fertility, weeds, pests and disease?

Did you tell them about the process that you go through to become certified organic? Did you tell them about the record keeping requirements and the inspections?

My guess is that you did little if any of the above. I would be simply amazed if you had the slightest notion of which continent your flax was consumed on.

If you didn't do these things than you did nothing to develop the markets which you are so proud of. You are riding on someone elses coat tails and trying to take credit for being an astute marketer. You are the price taker benefiting from all those who went before you.

You make it sound like you built these organic markets and that anyone who comes along and wants to be successful at organic farming will have to retrace your steps to duplicate your "marketing" success.

You blame low grain prices on the Canadian Wheat Board.

Who is causing low canola prices? Who is causing low lentil prices? Who is causing low corn, rice, soybean, cotton and sugar beet prices?

I spoke to someone who was in France recently. He tells me that there are 500,000 farmers in France. He tells me that they are in terrible financial difficulty and it is expected that half of them will leave the industry in the next five to ten years. I suppose you would want to blame this on the Canadian Wheat Board.

Perhaps you would also like to blame the CWB for the holes in the Ozone layer of Earth's atmoshpere.

Grain prices are definitely influenced by supply and demand. You scoff at the most basic logic. Low grain prices are a result of oversupply. You seem to understand that high flax prices were a result of a shortage. Organic grains have no special exemption from the laws of supply and demand. It would be very simple for the organic supply to exceed demand and cause a drastic drop in prices. I am sure that you know that one of the primary forces driving organic flax lower today is cheap organic flax coming into North America from China. I assume that you also know that some of this flax is indeed certified organic by the very same people (OCIA) who certify me flax as organic. What is the cost of production of flax in China?

[Jman]

Has this thread deteriorated to another CWB debate? If it has then I have a few questions for both the main participants, Vader and Parsley.

Assuming the CWB is turned into a completely volutary marketing board, and disappears from the scene within a year, how will this affect:

1) The long term premium of organic wheat to commercial wheat as it stands now? i.e.

2.) Will organic production increase with the demise of the CWB? Why or why not? My thought is that now that we can realize "value-added" on the prairies, that more organic wheat marketing companies will emerge,developing the market and therby competing against each other thereby bidding up the price of organic wheat to prices we have never seen before. (I hope this is not too naive).

3.) Will we have more open access to the USA to market these products?

[parsley]

Jman,

1.a)The CWB does not market organic wheat(Thank goodess). Never has. I hope never will.

b) No buybacks if we get Voluntary marketing... so my buyback money will not go into the black pooling hole from which I cannot recover it.

c) Conventionals cannot ever sell into the organic market.

d) Organic wheat usually leaves the country. Less grain here if farms are taken out of Conventional.

e)Organics sell into a premium market. Not interested in selling into third world countries asking the Canadian taxpayer to cover the losses.

f)Organic Farming is not used as a food aid programe.

g)Ideally, Organics tries to value add locally first, then domestically, and then export. Tremendous global expansion of value-added compared to 10 years ago.

h) A Growing demand for Organics in Canada compared to ten years ago, when Canadians were the last to buy Organics.

i)We will have American access as long as we don't have Liberals like Carolyn Parrish stomping on the American flag, and the Paul Martins trying to explain Free Trade. In other words, if Organics can keep the politician types to hell out of the scene. But I think everyone on this thread can smell one.

j) I expect more value-added all the time, domestically. More local employment. We have had up to 12 employees in the past, but getting too old, and like too much time to tune into Agri-ville.

k)Wheat and Barley in Organics cannot thrive under the CWB. Value-added wht/bly is stymied/brought to it's knees. A direct result of the CWB, whether or not Vader likes it.

l) With the CWB gone, organic farmers will definitely put more organic money in their pockets.


These observations are gleaned from our experiences in many years of organic farming, but keep in mind we are not "experts".

It seems that Vader has already assumed his role as an organic expert, undoubtdly trained by the CWB's Organic Marketing Department that simply does not market Organic grain.

Parsley

[parsley]

Maybe we're not experts at marketing, Vader, but we've dealt with thousands, I mean thousands, of consumers, buying not only flax, but other grain products we grow. Face to face. Brochure to sample. Year after year.

Even in the old days, when we had livestock that sold by the planeload, all over the world... England, Czechoslovakia, England, USA, Bulgaria. USA. All over Canada... even then, we tried to liase with our buyers. We learned lots from livestock marketing.

And yes,Vader, we have mentored considerable numbers entering organics. Tours, shows. Farmers share organic agronomic information easily. Every week, we get a call or two. We like other farmers and learn from them. It's a good life.

The Wheat Board did not create the organic industry, it was built by farmers, Vader. And that is what actually happened Built by farmers. Imagine. Those piddly-assed farmers having the nerve to create an industry without experts. And make a profit.

I understand the CWB wants to take over, now that organics looks promising. Grab the profit and pay the salaries, right? We hear it's coming.

Even though you think $18.00 is an unacceptably low price for flax, we went organic because we wouldn't dream of trying to live on the CWB's proverbial "$2.00 wheat". Organic oversupply still realizes a profit,at $18.00, in my books.

You want to grow organically, yet you want to market conventionally.

Unfortunately, we can't afford to let you teach us how you'll do it.

Parsley

[Vader]

Sorry Jman. My crystal ball is somewhat cloudy on the answer to your questions. Besides I see little value in specualting about something which not likely to happen any time soon. Support for the CWB appears from my persective to be getting stronger all the time.

Don't you wish parsley could engage in debate without all the personal attack?

[TOM4CWB]

Vader;

It is a simple matter of fact that the CWB is here to take part of the organic grain farmer's revenue... and share it primarily with non-organic farmers.

If I were organic... I would be particularily annoyed with the CWB.

Therefore; Vader: your "personal attack" status leveled at Parsley; is a smoke screen.

The CWB is Guilty as charged;

For taking assets from those who it had no moral or ethical right to confiscate or profit from.

If the CWB cannot or will not understand these simple ethical standards that are clear to the normal hard working Canadian... that makes this country a great place to live and learn...

Then the solution will be made by the majority of other Canadians who have the right to make this decision... the voters of Canada.

These are the only folks who gave the CWB it's monopoly "single desk".

Grain producers are now what, probably less than 1% of the Canadian polulation... and the CWB expects how much from the federal and provincial treasuries to make our grain farms viable?

Jman;

I did not hear Parsley groveling begging for Liberal or federal gov. hand outs... did you Jman?

THe simple fact that Vader refused to answer one of your questions speaks volumes to the moral and ethical ground the CWB stands upon.

INDEFENSIBLE.

[parsley]

Explain: "the CWB expects how much from the federal and provincial treasuries to make our grain farms viable', please, Tom4CWB?

Parsley