When are we Hoarding food?

[TOM4CWB]

Vader;

I see this on DTN:

DJ Venezuela Pres: Won't Tolerate Producers Hoarding Coffee
01/08 8:27p CST

CARACAS (AP)--Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez said Sunday his government will not tolerate the hoarding of coffee or other foods by producers seeking to avoid price controls.
Venezuelans recently have faced a scarcity of coffee as producers have
protested price controls that they say are forcing them to sell below cost.
"There is a government here that defends the interests of the people and
the consumers," Chavez said during his weekly TV and radio show, "Hello
President."
Coffee is among a number of basic food products that fall under price
controls.
"If they hide the milk from me, I'll send them to take the milk. If they
hide the sugar from me, I'll send them to take the sugar," Chavez said. "I know
where they keep it. ... So don't try to hide the people's milk or food."
Authorities have seized some 1,200 metric tons (1,320 tons) of stored
coffee in raids recently, National Guard Gen. Marcos Rojas Figueroa said
Saturday, according to the state-run Bolivarian News Agency.
He said the coffee will be resold at the established price of 7,400
bolivars a kilogram ($1.57 per pound).

(END) Dow Jones Newswires
01-08-06 2127ET
Copyright (c) 2006 Dow Jones & Company, Inc.(AP-DJ-01-09-06 0227GMT)

When exactly does a government have the right to confiscate farmer's produce?

I don't understand the CWB's position.

1. The CWB says it MUST have a monopoly to prevent "undercutting" of prices... yet the buyback does nothing to prevent low priced sales by those Canadians who get export licenses...

2. Many times the CWB itself sells below the cost of production... if I search and find a price that is profitable... the CWB confiscates a portion of the price I have discovered and marketed my grain to. How exactly does this keep the price profitable for my farm?

In Principal; How exactly is the CWB any different than the Venezuela Presedent?

[lakenheath]

I guess a person has to use their imagination a bit......

Canadians recently are faced with a glut of grain, producers have
protested CWB policies that they say are forcing them to sell below cost.
"There is a government here that defends the interests of the people and
the consumers," Ritter said during his weekly TV and radio show, "Hello
President."
Wheat, durum and barley are among a number of basic food products that fall under CWB
control.
"If they hide the wheat from me, I'll send them to take the wheat. If they
hide the durum from me, I'll send them to take the durum," Ritter said. "I know
where they keep it. ... So don't try to hide the people's food."
The CWB has marketed some 1,200 metric tons (1,320 tons) of stored
grain in mass dumps recently.

He said the grain will be resold at the established price of $3.50 per bushel.

[Vader]

Lakenheath,

You have a great sense of humor. I admit that there are similarities. Chavez has said nothing about making sure that the people growing coffee are going to be paid a fair price for the coffee. Chavez is selling the coffee into the market place at the going price.

The CWB is not paying farmers their cost of production for wheat. And the CWB is definitely selling the wheat into the international market at the going price.

One small differnce is that the CWB has not sent the National Guard out to the farms to seize the wheat.

I suppose you could say that preventing farmers from making their own sales into the international market forces the farmers to deliver to the CWB. I would disagree. I believe farmers would find that if they were free to deliver into the export market unfettered that they would receive very much the same international price and very likely even less.

In regard to tom's post about the buyback doing nothing to prevent people from selling into the export market at below the cost of production he is absolutely correct. However in the buyback process that individual is forced to compensate the pool for his actions at the same price level as if the CWB had made the sale. Conversely if that same seller had found a sale that was paying a big premium he would profit accordingly.

In other words if someone can sell wheat for more money than the CWB can they could put that money in their pockets. Most people that have tried it (other than the organic producers) have found that they can't make it work.

[sawfly]

Tom

you go out and find a profitable price.
What made that price ,was it because it was a special niche market that the CWB would not serve or ignored ? If so they need their ass kicked.

Or was it because the CWB had the power of supply. in that section of the market and could demand and get a preimuim over the world price.

eg. selling Durham to US millers.
certanly the board would have access to enough product to flood that market till the premium dissapeared.
Not a wise plan. But with control of supply the preium can be maintained .

the buy back makes it uneconomical for you to undercut that market.

In other words its not your market.It is every farmer in the CWB s market.
Without the supply control the preium wouldn't exist.
Which is what would happen if every farmer had access to it. Uncontroled supply.

If you can extract more out of that market than the board can (buy back price) more power to you.

But to cherry pick the benifits the union created with out paying any dues. No way

I realize things arn't black and white and theory dosen't always pan out.
My 2 cents

[Vader]

worth a lot more than 2 cents sawfly. I would say millions.

[sawfly]

I guess Vader was posting while i was composeing. some overlap.

[cropduster]

Vader ,to your earlier comment of not sending out the guards to confiscate the wheat,I would say true,but as to putting farmers in jail I would say yes!!Have they done that yet in S.A.??Maybe they just shot the farmers who resisted........

[clancey]

QUOTE
I suppose you could say that preventing farmers from making their own sales into the international market forces the farmers to deliver to the CWB. I would disagree. I believe farmers would find that if they were free to deliver into the export market unfettered that they would receive very much the same international price and very likely even less.
UNQUOTE

It can be argued that the CWB nearly always get less than the world price because if often sells through multi-national grain dealers on an FOB Canadian ports basis rather than on a CIF basis to end users.

statpub.com reports Korea bought Canadian feed wheat last week. The seller: Toepfer

To be fair, many years ago I did an analysis of CWB returns versus those available to farmers in the U.S. midwest. The CWB returned the average price.

In practice, however, some growers will do better and some will do worse than the average because prices fluctuate throughout the year and it is not practical for growers to sell in equal blocks throughout the year -- striving for a good average.

[parsley]

Sawfly,

You say: "Without the supply control the premium wouldn't exist."

Does Ontario ever get premiums? If so, how?

Parsley

[Vader]

cropduster,

I will grant you that farmers have gone to jail as long as you remember that they went there voluntarily as part of their ongoing protest.

clancy,

dualing economists - Richard Gray says that the CWB does earn a premium. In any event I think that the CWB has bigger fish to fry and will continue to improve its operations and its value to prairie farmers.

parsley,

I wish I was a farmer in Ontario and had all those mills within a hundred miles and didn't have to compete in the world export market. Then I would earn a "premium" also.

[parsley]

Isn't Ontario in Canada?

[silverback]

They went to jail voluntarily???? Say what??? What other options did they have??? Paying fines??? Nice option.

[silverback]

To all the guys in this thread defending the CWB,what are you guys going to do when the conservatives get into power,and throw that F***ing board out. It just amazes me how stupid farmers are watch money being stole from them every year and still believe the board has are best interest at heart. Give me a break. Why is the board 2 years ago was offering $5.00/bus fixed price contracts, then come fall the pro is at 3.50. The board if having are best interests at heart should have been making sales at these prices?(they probably did and sold for 5 giving us 3.50). Didn't any of you guys get a letter saying the board would only take 80% of A series contracts now, if I were to tell the board I only had 80% of my locked up tonnes to deliver you think they'd be so forgiving? Give your head a shake guys. Go Conservatives Go!!!!

[ProFarmer]

signed a A series contract for cps wheat. Since I signed it the pros keep on dropping The cwb can't take delivery of it in the for a few months I am carrying them. My price with the pro is 2.67 a bushel in the pit. I could sell it on the open market for 3.25 BUT the CWB who can't take delivery wants to charge me 6 dollars a tonne. So the same as our southern neighbors. They get you signed up in good faith that they will do a good job of selling your product, then they sell you short. I can't wait for a dual market. Only reason the NDP wants the wheatBoard saved is the CWB is unionized and in the NDP's back pocket

[sawfly]

the conservtives probaly will axe the board
it is not what i want but at least a lot of people wont have their whipping boy .
cant blame your dog dieing on the CWB anymore.
and they will have to open their eyes and look for the real problems

Yeah the wicked witch is dead