give wheat ... get tax reciept

[ivbinconned]

Another idea...lets give away 1/3 of our wheat crop in exchange for a tax write off of $7.00 per bushel from our government.
All grains would be donated ONLY into markets or countries that desperatly need it but do not produce simular commodities themselves so that we do not distroy their markets.

The pride and selfrespect this would give Canadian producers as well as the admiration of much of the world would be huge.

[parsley]

Raija farms in Ethiopia. He grows and sells a traditional grain that he sells into the cities, along with the other farmers in his area. It is how Raija feeds his family.

On Jamuary 1, 20006, an enormous influx of grain comes in from Canada,and the shipments are handled by the Government. Most of the free grain is is given away, and then the rest of it is sold for cash in the Government's pockets, , into the distribution system, with a little nudging from the established government.

Canadaians should be well aware of how that works, by now.

Raija cannot compete with free grain. He loses his market.

Do you feel good, ivbinconned.

[ivbinconned]

Ya I do feel good...I can read all the words...sorry that you cannot.

But have another go at it!!

"All grains would be donated ONLY into markets or countries that desperatly need it but do not produce simular commodities themselves so that we do not distroy their markets. "

[parsley]

Who determines those "markets or countries that desperatly need it but do not produce simular commodities themselves"? Do you? If so, how?

Desperate countries are often run by desperate Governments, and are often corrupt; hence the desperate situation. Should those Governments make the judgement about what comes in? Often they have. And often the situation seems to worsen, because they use that gift to work against their own people.

I know that conventional wisdom dictates that we should ride in on a white horse and save poor countries, and I have no problem with doing so in the case of emergencies. Earthquakes, etc.

But ivbinconned, I need a little convincing about your premises:

1. That your 'good intention' actually benefits the people you are targetting
2. That your good intention is the best way to actually benefit them
3. That it is in our farmers best financial interest.


Not saying it won't work. Just questioning, ivbinconned.

Parsley

[ivbinconned]

Seems to me that you are focusing on the logistics or implimtation and delivery of our largess...NOT THE PREMISE!

But as to your reservations, I suggest we put YOU in charge, and of course any organization WE as PRODUCERS (not government)deem credable to help us discern with demonstrateable facts where we should help.

The example of your friends displacement although true is not unique, all we have to do is look around us to see that this can happen by forces with in a boundry...not only by outsiders!! Thats the evolution of technology and economy.

Over production of anything releases people to engage in other endevors...and that is not ALWAYS a bad thing. That is not to excuse the fact that it can be painfull in the process.

Lets discuss here the concept and not get hung up on the how.

Grain producers can not keep on doing things the way they are unless the government steps up and subsidizes the prarie producers to the same levels as all of Quebecs producers...and what are the chances of that happening??

As to our ability to police the despots of the world and stop the corruption and the upsetting of foreign markets as in your example...I suspect we have been guilty of doing alot of that already by selling to the board. For many years the boards main customers where communist regemes around the world...were we helping??

However, since it is our wheat, and we have established in another thread here, that if we where to give our wheat away it will not impact the price of bread...and our ability to retain ownership is very limited...why not explore this idea and see if it has merit. Especally if we can get a tax benifit that reflects the value and honorable profession we engage in.

[silverback]

Maybe we can burn it to produce electricity for the city or process it into cod food and dump it in the ocean - for a tax receipt of course. That is about all it is worth to me right now, sad.

[parsley]

My "Raija" is imaginery.

And I will say that my response to your post has been one of inquiry, ivbinconned, and not meant to be one of criticism.

Your intent, as one of kindness and benevolence, is noble. And your wheat is your property, and if you want to give it away, you must be able to do just that.

I guess I was "wondering out loud", if it actually "benefits the people you are targetting", and if it may do more harm than good. I think it stems from my preliminary glimpse at a book on food aid.

"Is kindness ever wrong?" is perhaps the angst, or the concept, I was muttering about.

PS I approve any tax write-off.


Parsley

[ivbinconned]

"Things are never as simple as they first appear. "

I think his last sentence pretty much sums up the reality that during a campaign politiians are not going to discuss the more complicated issues.

Joe six pack VOTES...and he would tune out!!

Reminds me of what P.J. O'Rourke said, "Politians are interested in people. Not that this is a virtue. Fleas are interested in dogs."

[JD4ME]

If a person donates a quarter to the food grains bank do they get a write off on the productive potential of the land? I can guarantee the seed companies and all that donate to the project are writing their contributions off. Just curious?

[TOM4CWB]

Parsley;

I believe there can be a time and place for this to work.

2002, in the summer and fall drought I can remember being down unloading rail cars of hay from Ontario!

This was a constructive donation to my neighbours with livestock... that was administrated with honesty and caring hearts! It did not destroy those who were growing forage in Alberta... cause we were so short in the first place.

Did Ontario growers get a tax reciept? I doubt it... but a tax credit should be the least the CDN gov. could have done!

It can be done... if the time and place are right!

[cowman]

Linda: I don't think you picked a very good example with Kyoto? We signed on but did absolutely nothing except spout rhetoric and spend untold millions? The USA did not sign on but did twice as much, so in fact Kyoto was not worth the paper it was written on? It truly is a joke.
All the other "important issues"? I doubt there is anything any government could do about most of these problems?
The fact is we are moving closer to an integrated economy with the USA everyday despite the protectionist forces in both countries best attempts to thwart that? We are in fact being slowly absorbed into the American state?
Now I realize that might cause a lot of stress in nationalists who see Canada as a distinct society but the fact is we are one people, we share a common culture, and eventually we will be one country(if not in name at least in fact)!
For the logger does he care if he works for Macmillan Bloedal or Weyhauser? Who cares if you work for Shell or Ecana? Bank at the Royal or Chase Manhatten?
And frankly I wouldn't get too concerned about our international status? The US, China, India are not part of Kyoto...I doubt anyone would even miss us? We are like the mouse that roared in the big picture.

[cakadu]

Harper is campaigning on getting us out of Kyoto - I was merely pointing out that it isn't just a matter of saying "we're out". There are a great many who were/still are in agreement with what Kyoto represents, which is to take a look at what we are doing to the environment.

The ramifications of getting out of an international agreement extend far beyond this one. It has more to do with integrity and trust than anything else. Kyoto may seem like small potatoes to some but there is an underlying bigger picture that also needs to be looked at. I don't think it prudent to be shortsighted when dealing with international matters.

I think it was Rex Murphy who asked the question "are they talking about issues that are important to you?" If issues are too complicated for them to deal with now, what are they planning to do after January 23rd? Skilled labour shortages, lagging productivity, "brain drain", capacity to get further into the value chain to more effectively compete and many other things are being ignored and the focus is on scandal. Fine, we can all agree that there has been scandal - what are you going to do beyond that? Investigations will lead to criminal charges if necessary so let the process take care of those sorts of things. What are you going to do to ensure it doesn't happen any more?

Saying that we should have tougher laws and longer jail sentences is great, but where is the money going to come from to house these people - particularly when Harper said in the debate that we don't necessarily need to spend more money on the system - where is the money going to come from to build more jails because they are already filled to capacity etc. It is one thing to talk it, another thing entirely to bring it into effect.

I believe it was FarmRanger who raised the issue of another minority government. Even if the Conservatives manage to get in with a minority, how effective do you expect them to be when they will be fighting to stay in power? How much actual governing has gone on in the last 12 months? Have the MP's earned their salaries in that time period?

The focus is on scandals and change, but what about after the scandals and what will the change actually bring. I know that many of you will say that this is a new Conservative government, but under past Conservative governments we have witnessed interest rates triple, de-valuing of the dollar, unemployment, slow down in economic activity etc. etc. Is that where we want to go again? I'm not saying it will happen, rather we should be asking questions to gain a better understanding of just what is being offered.

[silverback]

Come on Cadaku, do you really think that the big media players in this country want to discuss the important issues to you and me???

They are going for ratings and the only way to get them is to report dirt and mud. For example: Ralph Goodale said the conservative plan is going to be a huge deficit even though the conference board reviewed it and said it would work. Now who would believe Ralph under the current circumstances?? (Besides f_s) But the media reports it to try and stir things up, they don't investigate if it is true, they just put it out on the air. Taxes and other important issues get shoved aside if they can smell blood with the social issues.

[ivbinconned]

"Investigations will lead to criminal charges if necessary so let the process take care of those sorts of things. What are you going to do to ensure it doesn't happen any more?"

You are oh so wrong here cakado...with out a change in government the "process" will be narrow and limited and justice will not be done.

[ivbinconned]

If another party winning the election does nothing else but clean the crooks out of the system and bring some sense of accountability to government it will be an improvement over what we have now.
Today Martin is promising the gas tax rebate to cities etc. will be a permanent fixture, where in hell has he been for the past 12 years when municipalities both rural and urban have been hard pressed to maintain and replace necessary infrastructure.
Running around promising the moon a week before the election is too little too late in my view.
If Harper does form the next government I am sure his feet will be held to the fire by Canadians to deliver on what he is promising now.