conservative victory & the CWB

[Ron]

Right, and if US corn is trading at $4.oo/bu canadian barley will flood south to ease the hardship on the US feeders. NOT.
The CWB caps the feed prices in Western Canada when prices are high (restricts exports) and does nothing when prices are low.
Feed grains should be (at least) a continental market (corn already flows north, if prices get high enough it would flow west from eastern canada).
If the CWB wont change it will die.

[Ron]

And I am very tired of bitching about the CWB. I feel like I am spitting into the wind. Pointless and frustrating. I start off feeling better for venting but when I re-read my post it pisses me off.

[Jman]

Ron:

I agree, that all feed grain should be freely traded. I just dont believe that the removal of the CWB will create significantly stronger (or lower) prices for feed barley and select barley.

The feed markets alread responds to international pricing signals and fortunate for us, our non-board feed barley prices have traded somewhat better than off-shore for several years, prior to Alberta BSE. One of the reasons is that only the line-companies in W. Can have the capablitity to import and take delivery of significant tonnages of feed grains. If they did there would be tremendous farmer-backlash towards them, as they would be the destroyer of the domestic feed premiums.

As for shipping feed barely south, I dont think many Americans are familiar with feeding barley, south of Montanan?

What if you were offered cheap USA imported milo to feed your cows? I'm sure you wouldnt jump into it right away until you knew the cost/benifit.

The USA market for CDN feed barley is a possiblility. With some market development activities, and the fact the USA may use up all their excess corn for tax-payer subsidized ethanol production, we may be able to find extra markets for our barley in the future.

[Jman]

TOM4CWB:

Pig farmers are not required to deal with the provincial hog boards anymore, it is purely a "Dual market". They now have 2 choices:

1. Sell your hogs directly to Maple Leaf
2. Sell you hogs to Maple Leaf through a marketing board pooled account.

[Incognito]

Some balanced reading from both sides:


Schmitz et al. assume that the CWB can optimize sales across markets and across time, and do so in a superior fashion compared to multiple sellers. This is an interesting claim for a government agency. Despite the superior marketing ability of this state agency, Schmitz et al. admit there were problems with the 1994-95 barley pool that cost farmers. They assume the overall cost to farmers that year was $7 million. This is much lower than the estimate of Mr. Ken Beswick (former CWB
commissioner), who has commented on the 1994-95 CWB barley pool losses. The $180 million loss in the 1994-95 crop year, according to Beswick, is determined as $20/ton under “competitive global
markets,” on 9 million tons used in the domestic market (United Grain Growers-UGG, Members Exchange, Summer 1996. p. 1.)

http://aic.ucdavis.edu/oa/stecwb.pdf
_____________________________________

From 1985/86 through 1994/95, the introduction of multiple sellers would have reduced the annual average price for feed barley in Canada by $3.52/mt (Table 2). The CWB returned the highest revenue benefits to Canadian producers relative to the multiple-seller scenario in 1987/88 ($11.36/mt). The CWB also obtained added revenue in 1985/86, 1986/87, and 1990/91 through 1993/94. However, the multiple-seller structure would have returned higher revenue relative to the CWB in feed markets in 1988/89, 1989/90, and 1994/95 ($1.10/mt, $0.86/mt and $6.62/mt, respectively).

http://www.cwb.ca/en/topics/price_pooling/barley_marketing.jsp

_______________________________________

At least two options for the partial removal of the single-desk selling authority are worthy of consideration. The first option would be to re-create the continental barley market while maintaining the single-desk authority for hard red spring and durum
wheat. In the run-up to the 1993 general election the federal government created a continental barley market by allowing for the export of Canadian barley to the United
States through agencies other than the CWB. A court challenge lead by the
Saskatchewan Wheat Pool got the policy overturned. Before the government could
further amend the CWB legislation they were defeated in a general election. The new Liberal government did not re-introduce the amendments to the Canadian Wheat Board Act so the continental barley market did not become permanent. The continental barley market option still exists. However, barley exports into the
United States are low and have not created any trade tension since 1993. Removing the designation of the CWB as the sole seller of Canadian barley to the United States would appease only those domestic farmers who want out from under the CWB mandate.
The major problem with a continental market is the transshipment problem. For example, a grain company could purchase malting barley in Canada, export it to the United States as feed barley, and re-export it into the international market in competition with the CWB.

http://www.esteycentre.com/journal/j_pdfs/furtan6-2.pdf

[Incognito]

Side note to Malt barley:

China is buying feed and malt barley from Canada in containers; China is buying feed and malt barley from Australia in containers.


Homer Simpson would be proud.

[TOM4CWB]

Jman;

I live in Alberta. We have hog entities who are innovators that pool resourses, marketing, process pork in B.C., and benefit our communities. It is being done every day. Not a multi-national involved.

Great people to sell feed grains to, as well!

[wd9]

Jman re:
The cash advance program is a fed govt program, only admin'd by the CWB. It wont disapear, unless the banks ask the government to get rid of it, because it is a competing service, to their services.

Uhhhh no. Banks may be able to provide the service even in the future but it is in their best interest to maintain the advance, esp the ones that carry the interest on advances above 50k.

[Vader]

whoever administers the cash advance program for the government is entitled to charge admin fees. I am sure that banks would like to get in on that.

[Vader]

JMan I don't buy into that maltsters are going to go broke if they have to pay over 4.00 for barley. Take a look at CWB pro over the last 10 years on 2ss, we averaged anywhere from 3.50-4.00/bus for malt, it isn't until the last years that malt has dipped to these lows. Maltsters were not going broke at those prices. Jman do you know what Prarie Malt is paying right now for barley?? It is alot more than $2.30, they also use alot more domestic barley than they import, I was just there, unless I was lied to. To refer to cash advance question, I'm not sure why that is??

[sawfly]

it amazes me how the anti board posters can talk out of a different side of their mouth every time .
that damn board wont sell durham cheaper to local pasta plants, how are we ever gonna get any secondary industry, value added industry.

that damn board sells malt to the maltsters way too cheap. (which i agree with)but with no mention when malt was 4-5$

when oats came off the board prices fell because Why. oh there were no millers etc. Not that the open market would only pay 1/2 what the board was getting in the same market.

i got 200$ /acre for oats in 86, they couldnt find that miller i guess, or we did with out cheerios for 2 years.

but after 2 years of low prices the open market got their act together(just for the farmers sake) and prices rallied.
Not that after low returns me and a lot of others quit growing oats, kinda like an open market.

dont get me wrong ,malt barley at under 4$ is insane.lots of things are insane.

The board going, is not the end of the earth. however there are going a couple more mouths to feed, cargil adm etc. we are gonna need some US style subsides so theres something left for Mr. farmer at the end of the trough.

[sawfly]

Sawfly I'm not complaining about 4-5.00 malt. My beef is now, do you really think the Board is selling malt to Prarie Malt for 2.30/bus. If you do you are very ignorant. There is a huge shortage right now of malt and we have horrible prices on it. Dominion,Prariemalt,etc, are not importing barley right now from Australia, and China cheaper than 2.30, and they are paying alot more than 2.30 so where is the money???? Someone is pocketing it, Prarie malt wants to deal with farmers direct but can't because of the CWB. Why is that???

[Jman]

TOM4CWB:

My thought is pooling and cooperation amoungst farmers usually occurs when an indusrty is evolving.

Once it begins to mature, the hog farms will consolidate, then one or two multinational packers will buy up the entire supplychaing (from feedmills to hog genetics). Basically leaving the very large hog barn owners at the mercy of their control.

Don't get me wrong, I hope Alberta takes a different path and doesnt allow this to happen, so the farmers maintain control as far up the supply chain as possible.

[sawfly]

i am not sure how malt barley is priced for the domestic market.
I think i have the general gist of it but please correct me if im wrong.
I assume the domestic price is based on the export price in store vancover.

in canada if you had an open market, price for malt would be all they have to pay to get it. correct.

in years with ample malt supply in west can.the price would be the world price, less the freight to vancover, plus whatever premium over the feed market it takes to bring it in the door. right.
in years with poor malt supply in west can.(which i assume we are in now) the maltsters would have to pay world price plus freight from vancover.

under the board the Cdn.maltsters pay the export price for the malt.so the freight is added to the pool account.
net is world price instore van. for every bushell of malt.so the farmer would gain the freight back on every bushel malted domesticaly.

in our current situation a open market would net anyone with malt a premium over the board.
but when you think about all the other years when we got a 1$ bush. (freight back)over what an open market would have delivered . im certainly open for corrections. fire away

[sawfly]

toughgoofit
i know you think the cwb is stealing some of your malt barley money.And i'm sure there are some liberals who work there.(* which would make you wonder) but really i think its a little far fetched.
i cant stand the price of malt even though i dont have any. the board must be more open even if private enities arent. Why ? because its our board.and farmers like yourself have lost faith.