Who Controls Grain Handling?

[sawfly]

thanks to vader for his posts. Brave man.
posters may disagree,but we should be civil with each other.I have learned something from all sides

[silverback]

Hey right now I am just saying we have a chance to start at square one with this organization, and the best thing to do would be to see if the money is all present and accounted for. Vader you say that an audit was done and that may be so, I apologize for not knowing that. Does anyone else remember it being done or the results?? Sorry. After that is accomplished correctly and fully, then I think it would be ok to see where to go with it. There is just too much distrust accross the prairies of the way things have been done over the past however many years.

You will have to forgive me for wondering if what you are saying is you talking for yourself or the rest of the organization? Do the rest of the board, including the appointed members echo your thoughts of yesterday?

[furrowtickler]

re:agstar77
Your response to TG bothers me greatly, "...hasn't farmed long enough to deal with the crapy side of farming."
This should read, "hasn't farmed long enough to deal with the GOOD side of farming." I have farmed for a mere 12 years but my father for 43 years. He, like many others of his age all agree on the same thing, never has farming been this "crapy" in their time.
TG has , by his post, farmed aprox. 70% of his young carreer in the crapyiest time scince the thirties.
Agstar77, I find your comments interesting and expeirenced, but don't belittle the "younger" crowd that are becoming almost extinct and may well be the only future of agriculture in the west.

[furrowtickler]

Jd4me and Agstar, you wanted rational debate here you go.
In the thread "Does the CWB have the right to spend our money like this", Vader said I quote:
"and by the way COFCO is a state trading monopoly you simply do not do buisiness in China unless it is through COFCO".

Vader has said many times the CWB is not a monopoly, how are they any different than COFCO, I can't sell my Wheat & Barley without going through the Board.

I'll be willing to bet though I will get no response to this from Vader. I'm not going to get in to it again but this it why I was so angry, if I see this many discrepancies, in Vaders testimony, do I want him representing me??{no personal attack intended}

[agstar77]

You are right farming has never been this crappy or this challenging as far as the financial side. But on sheer work and severe working conditions it is not. The greatest problem that faces us that their is the expectation that if we only get more efficient or are better marketers or are larger things will improve. Well that may not be the case as farming has been left behind in the new high powered business world and full shelves of food is taken as a right( and cheap did I forget cheap). Therein lies TG's frustration and wish to blame someone for the situation we are all in, I have no doubt that he and others have done the best they can but have not seen the results. You keep asking for more tools let you do better but I suggest you may not get what you want no matter what tools you are given. I could be wrong but I have seen how some farmers asked for an end to the crow rate and everything would be better, well is it? The railways said we would have better and cheaper service if we let them abandon all the branch lines, well where is it? The large grain companies said things would be better as soon as they closed all the small inefficient debt free elevators , well are they better now that you have to haul your grain 10 times as far over crumbling roads? We were told to get larger and more efficient and we would prosper , are small communities prospering or are they being boarded up? I have two young boys that could farm but why should they? There is a basic lack of respect for farming in the circles of power. There are too many lobyists or suits from the large grain companies ,railways and food industry to allow farmers any more than an existence. Farmers used to have some say in grain handling with the Pools and the UGG, but fear and the desire to be big and efficient got to them. We have become divided and conquered. So before you protest too loudly about how hard done by you are, think about the result if you get what you want, and whether you will be better off in ten years. Thanks and goodnite.

[Vader]

TG, first I would like to say thanks for the change in your tone on agri-ville. I do understand how hard it is out there. I think that all of us here have more knowledge and insight into agriculture from what we share here and the mere fact that we take the time to do so. For my part I spend a huge amount of time talking to farmers as I travel to various parts of the country and when they take the time to phone or email me.

I sometimes think that I spend way too much time here. The more time I spend here and the more often I post the more questions I get. I don't always have the time, energy or correct answers to reply to all of them.

TG, on the issues of COFCO. I hope that what I said is that they are an importing state trading enterprise because that is exactly what they are. The CWB is defined as an exporting state trading enterprise. We are both creatures of law in that we exist at the pleasure of the government. If the government changes the law then we become whatever that new law says we are.

I do not know the inner workings of COFCO. They are much more diverse in their business than the CWB and also much larger. Their name stands for China Oil and Foodstuffs COmpany. They are also into hotels and winemaking. They are in a stage of transition just like the CWB is. The Chinese government is relaxing their authority. In wheat there is a small amount of imports that can be bid on by mills without going through COFCO. I am not sure about the mechanics. Perhaps it is something like our domestic feed grain policy. Perhaps the mills are putting pressure on COFCO and the government to do this. COFCO is reponding by looking for outside investors and diversifying their portfolio.

COFCO has formed a strategic partnership with Cargill. Cargill and COFCO jointly own and operate an oilseed crushing plant in China. COFCO is actively searching for more partnership opportunities. They have invited the CWB to be a partner in a flour milling venture. The CWB is prohibited from owning "real" property (anything attached to the ground) so for now we must confine our business relationship to market development type activities. As the chinese market evolves there will be winners and losers so one must choose carefully which horse to bet on if the plan is to expand ones presence in that market.

I would say that the largest difference between COFCO and the CWB (and I am only speculating about COFCO) is our mission. The CWB's mission is to maximize returns to farmers. I don't know who the sharholders/stakeholders are of COFCO. I don't know what their business structure is. I don't know where their profits go. I know where the CWB's profits go. (please don't laugh). The CWB returns all of the revenues from sales to producers minus the cost of administration. A recent exception is the funds that have gone into the contingency fund. The reason funds are going into the contingency fund is primarily a result of the new pricing options where our trading activity has generated what might be referred to as unallocated funds. ie they do not belong to those who are in the pooling system and they also do not belong to those who are contracting outside the pool. The intent of the contingency fund is to provide a backstop to any risk management activity that the CWB engages in. Having said that there is also some funds that have been placed into the contingency fund that have arisen from the CWB's financial management activities. Generally the CWB has chosen to place these funds (interest earnings) into the pool accounts apportioned according to the sales of wheat and barley that took place during the cold war that led to the creation of the loan portfolio that we manage. Were it not for the cap on the contingency fund I would vote to retain those interest earnings for future capital investments.

[furrowtickler]

re:agstar
Thank you for the response. Sheer work and severe working conitions are not the same anywhere in the industrial world as they once were, just a fact of life.
Yes the demise of the crow rate has cripled all of our lives today, but there is no one else to blame for that than the greed of landowners and those on the brink of retireing who aplauded the move while the majority of the "active" farmers of the time stood in silence. Anyone farming today basically under the age of 35 had absulutly no say in the crow, but is one more lead weight around our neck.

[parsley]

During a time when farmers cannot pay their bills and could use that money,the CWB is swallowing our much-needed cash to build up a contingency fund, and to fund projects in China.

But, are they also going to waste more of our hard earned dollars on a Communication blitz?


1. Traditionally, single-deskers HUMILIATED any 'toughgoofits' voicing an opinion. Still do. Nothing worse than a 24 year old condemning the CWB's real 'pennies-to live-on' results on Agriville's public forum.

After watching bloggers set the agenda for the election, by ripping open the putrid festering entitlement gashes in our "intellectual elite", you can bet that the CWB has learned that they must set a persuasive, gentler tone.

Just the right touch, get a whiff of the "I do understand how hard it is out there", kind of a message.

The CWB has put 'raiding farm homes in the middle of the night', on hold.

The CWB has put the 'shackling and chaining farmers' on hold, at least outside camera's view.



2. Instead, look for a 'quietly put-together' campaign at work. With your money. From your pooling accounts. In the DA.


A cool $million will help to ALIENATE the farm groups. Pit farmer against farmer. Would they actually pay a few 'solid' Board supporters, to attack the toughgoofits online, and at meetings? Pay them well? Paid Board supporters vs Free Marketers? Aren't long time single deskers 'entitled' when times are tough?


3. INTIMIDATE every farmer who has a cash advance that is overdue. Let his wife know they might call the loan, particularly when they hear the kids are sick. Intimidate every 24 year old at a public meeting.



HUMILIATE INTIMIDATE ALIENATE


These will be interesting times for the CWB, and it is not surprising that Mr. Flaman is "sharing" his real identity with DA farmers. only the CWB's MR. FLAMAN has entitlements. Vader does not have those entitlements. Protecting the CWB, online, is hard work. LOng tired hours. $500.00 a day kind of work.

Farmers are forced to concede that a REAL, outed Canadian Wheat Board Director, a single-desk visionionary, sporting a cheque, signed by the farmers themselves, is ENTITLED to say, $500.00 per day per diems.

Online. With your money. I'm not making this up.

I am guessing that per diems are comfortable now, but are slated to go up in price. The entitlement crowd always arrange it.


Don't you apologize for one bloody thing toughgoofit. You represent every 24 year old out there, needing to reclaim your industry from the entitlement feeders. YOU are the only one entitled to your own money.

Parsley

[agstar77]

We can all judge who is pitting farmer against farmer rather than offering constuctive suggestions on how to accomadate other people's views. By all means we should question all organizations to make sure they are doing the best job possible. Unfortunately it is a one way dialogue with most marketers such as ADM and we do not have the luxury of questioning their performance or objectives. AU 's CEO answering any of your posts?

[sawfly]

we have had independent studies that say the cwb puts 10-20$ a tonne more in the farmers pocket.
so now you say its all lies propaganda, lets assume that . maybe we are actually loseing 10 -20 $ a tonne over open market.
thats why we are all scrapping for a living, the reason people are leaveing going broke etc. loseing their equity and retirement saveings.
well maybe we should plant the whole farm to feed barley, lentils canola,canary, peas . that will cure all our ills. we will just be swiming in money.