Benifits of the CWB

[Jagfarms]

There is several Benifits of the CWB that we know of. Do you know of any more Benifits add them in. I could not think of any benifits of dual marketing or an open market so if you know of any add them in.


Benifits of CWB
#1 Guaranteed payment
#2 Fairness of delivery opportunity to all producers.
#3 CWB advances
#4 Rail car acqisition for shipping
#5 accountability to the railways
#6 CIGI evaluation
#& promotion and marketing support for Canadian grains
#7 CGC support and relationship to producers and terminals
#8 terminal access for all CWB grains
#9 handling agreements with all country elevators and terminals
#10 Holding tarrifs at competitive levels
#11 fair shipping opportunities for all grain handling companies creating fair access to competition for all farmers
#12 producer car initiatives that allow for producer car loading to a terminal
#13 access to world market and crop conditions
#14 world market prices by a single desk seller who can demand higher prices and Canadian quality guarentees which the industry would have to earn over again.


Benifits of Dual Marketing

???


Benifits of Open Market

???

[AdamSmith]

Jagfarms,

Is this your list? or is it someone elses?

[Jagfarms]

It is my list. I was talking with some friends of mine and these are some of the benifits that we see with the CWB.

[silverback]

Biggest benefit is protecting producers from having to think for themselves every now and then. It is obviously better to not allow producers to sink or swim on their own, after all it is only 2006 and we just aren't ready to be released from under Ottawa's protection just yet.

[Ron]

Sorry Jagman but the CWB advance is not a CWB program, it is available for non-board feed wheat, barley, rye, oats, peas, canola, and a pile more. Still lots of other good points on your list though.
Ron

[AdamSmith]

Well before I add my benefits of an open market, I must first address some of the points on your list, maybe even all.

#1 Guaranteed payment;

I really don’t think this is an exclusive of the CWB. I have been selling Canola into the open market for over twenty years now and I have not once, never been paid anything less than what I sold the grain for. I’ve sold peas, flax, feed barley, feed wheat, triticale as well all into the open market and have never had any concerns with the issue of not being paid any thing less than 100% of what I contracted for. Now if you are speaking of an guaranteed price, well the initial price only fits that description the PRO certainly doesn’t and I doubt you will actually find that many farmers describe the initial payment from the CWB to be a” benefit ”.

#2 Fairness of delivery opportunity to all producers;

I have never heard of anyone ever being denied the opportunity to sell grain into the open market. It just doesn’t happen. This point is a non issue and a non benefit as well.

#3 CWB advances;

Almost all the off-board grains offer cash advances as well. There is this thing called the Prairie Grains Cash Advance Act (or something very close to that!) which is responsible for allocating federal dollars towards farmers cash advances. The CWB are only responsible for administration of the advances for the grains of wheat and barley. So this is another non-benefit.

#4 Rail car acquisition for shipping;

Now I’m not sure if you are speaking about owning cars to ship grain but I think you are referring to rail car access. Again, do you really believe that without the CWB, CN and CP will just quit shipping grain? The RR’s ship much more than just grain and I’m pretty certain that when wheat and barley move under an open market the RR’s will ship it. How do you think flax and canola get to the ports now? Red River Carts? Again a non-exclusive benefit.

#5 Accountability to the railways;

I suppose if you believe that the grain industry best functions under duress, fear and loathing well then I guess you may count this as a benefit. I don’t. When Arthur Kroeger studied the grain transportation system recently he was appalled at how all the players within the industry despised one another and how dysfunctional the system was because everyone hated everyone else. And I for one, believe that exists because the CWB only know how to use fear and intimidation. Every company’s CEO will tell about CWB reprisals for not doing exactly what they were expected to do. So to me this is a definite non-benefit.

#6 CIGI evaluation ?????


#7 promotion and marketing support for Canadian grains ???

Like Canadian Winter wheat, CPS Wheat and White Wheat? That kind of promotion and support ? The kind that keeps those wheat permanently under valued and under utilized ?


#8 terminal access for all CWB grains
#9 handling agreements with all country elevators and terminals
#11 fair shipping opportunities for all grain handling companies creating fair access to competition for all farmers
#12 producer car initiatives that allow for producer car loading to a terminal
#13 access to world market and crop conditions

See response to #1 and #2



#10 Holding tarrifs at competitive levels;

Do you live in a bubble? Handling tariffs and fees are more than quadruple here on the prairies than in the U.S. I’ve had American grain buyers tell me that if they can’t buy grain for 5 cents or less per bushel (their handling fee, that is) they have no business being in the grain business.

#14 world market prices by a single desk seller who can demand higher prices and Canadian quality guarentees which the industry would have to earn over again. .

That my dear JagFarms is nothing more than CWB induced clap trap.

That’s a CWB self aggrandizing, self anointing slogan and nothing more.

Every point you made is non exclusive to the CWB. Because if you believe those to be exclusive to the CWB then WHEN we move to an open market system then you must believe that the elevators will close and the trains will quit running and the terminals wont accept grain and we will even be shut out of accessing information about world crop conditions.

Why would Strahl even spend one minute consulting with farmers when this is the garbage he’s going to get from them?

Chuck, if your listening, consulting the CWB and farmers is going to give you grief the likes you’ve never seen before. So just like drugs, Don’t do it.

[Jagfarms]

#1 Guaranteed payment

I will just start with this for now as it it getting late and I have to get up at 6am to haul grain tomoro.

We had sold some lentils to Eagle Creek Processing back a few years ago at Rosetown, Saskatchewan. You may remember them before they went under. We had over $30,000 worth of lentils there and we heard on the radio that they went broke. Well we got in touch with the CGC and they thought we MIGHT get our money or get a percentage of it on the dollar. Well after a few sleepless months we did get our money.

Then there was this guy who I custom haul grain for had about $60,000 or so of canary seed there as well he was not so lucky and he did not get 1 cent. When they owed us this money there was a list of people that were owed money and it was a huge list and I bet there is a lot of people who did not get any money from them.

There was a local processing plant that went under not to far from here and LOTS of people did not get paid from them.

When I get a check from the CWB I know it is good.

[Jagfarms]

#2 Fairness of delivery opportunity to all producers

Well sure you can deliver it. But without the CWB who is going to buy it and where are they located at and where do I have to deliver it to? If I live in Northern Alberta and I have to truck it 1000km to southern Alberta, after I pay the trucking I owe them $1000.

With out the CWB I think the producer car loading facilities and farmer owned terminals will be in trouble. They will not be able to compete with the big guys. They will have to market their grain through them and they will not get a fair deal.

[Incognito]

Take the time to download Dr. Wilson's report Jag.

Then for each question ask yourself:

How is that maximizing returns to farmers?

Then post your answers.I'm curious.

Best,

[Incognito]

What part of the SWP release do you not understand Jag?

"CWB shipments of wheat,which typically generate the strongest margins."

Screw you over and you want want more of the same; but you can keep the status quo and the sky won't fall - but for those that want options answer me this one question:

Why should those that want options, be treated any differently in MB, SK and AB, than the rest of the country?

[TOM4CWB]

Jagfarms;

Point 1. What makes you so sure CWB grains will always be paid for? Remember SWP a couple of years ago in Jan?

I was told my CWB CWRS#1 wheat was at risk.

Point 2. Durum 2005 A series... double up on the contract signup... or what ever... reduce to the correct amount... presto 100% delivered...

Or deliver your #2 Durum as a #4 GDC now.

Real fair.

The fear and intimidation used... to excuse the CWB... to sit and suck our thumbs... and pretend we all need baby sitters. What a pathetic bunch we are.

Im scared... I just shouldn't get out of the bed in the morning... cause I might stub my toe!

[chaffmeister]

I started reading this thread and my initial thought was, “my job here is not done”.

And then I read AdamSmith’s posting and thought to myself, “Whew. Glad I didn’t have to write all that.” Well said, AdamSmith. Just for the record, Jagfarms – I agree with everything AdamSmith wrote.

What concerns me is not so much that there are CWB supporters out there – with all the mis-information out there, I’m not surprised. (After all – I’ve said that if the CWB proved itself to be an asset to the farm community, I’d be a CWB-hugger myself.)

What is really unfortunate is that there is such a poor understanding of how the market IN GENERAL works. I’ve seen examples of it many times over the years and it doesn’t seem to be getting any better. For example, Jagfarms’ posting about fairness of deliveries where is states:

“Well sure you can deliver it. But without the CWB who is going to buy it and where are they located at and where do I have to deliver it to? If I live in Northern Alberta and I have to truck it 1000km to southern Alberta, after I pay the trucking I owe them $1000.”

Jagfarms: Where do you deliver grain to now? Why do you think that, without the CWB, you would need to deliver somewhere else?

I think the two biggest problems with this whole CWB debate are:
1. We don’t know enough about the CWB – what its true value is in dollar terms.
2. Too many farmers don’t know enough about how the marketplace works – or could work.

[TOM4CWB]

Chaffmeister;

My problem is this:

The CWB buy-back is completely unreliable... at times it payed $20/t, at times it costed $50/t; to access an export license all depending on the grade and timing.

I cannot develop any sort of a business relationship... using this system's cost.

The CWB DPC is not a reliable tool to access a license, the CDN grading system itself is unstable and adds to the greif.

A high buy-back on feed wheat... which in turn actually is milling wheat.

Jag, we would go a very long way, if we would allow our neighbour the opportunity to capture value for initiative and risk... instead of allowing the CWB to pounce on those who try to make an honest business through hard work.

A CWB that will Pounce and tear those apart who are more often than not...

Victums (grain producers)of the CDN system that is paying a substandard price for farm produce with real intrinsic value...

that does not belong to the CWB pool in the first place.

Jag, if your "Benefits" are dependant on the system that rips off one "designated area" grower... to pay them ( those benefits ) to other CWB "Poolies"... needless to say:

I object!

Would you truthfully expect any less of me?

[northfarmer]

There was, and maybe still is, a time when the CWB propaganda machine had most farmers in the North concerned about having to haul thier grain long distances to be delivered if the so called "Power" of the board is gone.

This is of course a load of crap.

In fact most of our grain to export goes west not south. Most of what goes south is off board feed grain, which already goes by truck, in a market distorted by the CWB.

In fact, even though we farm in the North, we depend on non board crops such as oats, canola, peas, beef and feed grain to sustain the survival and cash flow the growth of our operation.

We need the new higher yielding wheats that are already being grown in the US not subject to our antiquated grain systems KVD grading structure and start gowing what the world is paying for and position us better to compete gloablly.

We will need gmo wheat before China and other major producing countries get them in place.

You can moan all you want about the low price of canola and overproduction, but imagine if GMO canola was never introduced in Canada. Do you relly think we would have been able to compete with soybeans and palm oil if we did not lower the per unit cost of production of canola and expand production and acreage. I think not.

If the final battle over the CWB is too be fought in an "fair" vote of producers(actual producers that ship more than a truckload of wheat) than the govt of Canada should fund the free choice campaign, seeing as the free choice campaign will have to fight the resources of CWB and their own self preservation propaganda machine.

[almoy]

I do believe the end of the CWB will be the end of the smaller grain farmer. We already notice that we have more trouble getting wheat delivered than the larger farmers this year. When there is a lack of room the grain companies give the space to their bigger customers. With no contracts in place regulating sales the smaller farmer will be squeezed out.