CWB Survey

[cropduster]

I`ll vouch for Incog JAG,he`s got good batteries on his farm!!!!!!!What a bunch of drivel............

[chaffmeister]

Not sure of the purpose of posting the history of the CWB (by the CWB) but since you did, I want to point out one little item.

Deliveries to the CWB became "mandatory" in 1943. The CWB had already guaranteed wheat to England at a fixed price. As the price rose above the guaranteed price to England, the CWB couldn't compete with the open market - their price was too low.

So - AND THIS IS IMPORTANT - to protect the government, it initiated the CWB monopoly, effectively shutting down the open market, forcing farmers to sell at the lower price the CWB established.

THIS IS ALSO IMPORTANT - THE CWB MONOPOLY WAS NOT ESTABLISHED TO GIVE FARMERS MARKET POWER AND HIGHER PRICES - IT WAS THERE TO GIVE ENGLAND CHEAP WHEAT AND SAVE GOVERNMENT MONEY BY DOING SO.

The CWB's piece that you posted concurs.

Is it right that the CWB now says that the monopoly is there to provide better prices?


Jag - still waiting for answers to my questions. Please tell me specifically how the CWB is good for you.

[TOM4CWB]

I give Jag, who are you?

The CWB gives part of the story... there is much more to be told!

When do we start "pooling" our trucking revenues Jag? I could use a few $$'s for new batteries!

[Incognito]

Why Jag?

u gonna send me a check for the increase in web traffic?

[Jagfarms]

parsley
Quote
1. Don't disparage your customers. They are the farmers who provide you with the cash for trucking and they deserve some loyalty.
3.You are obviously trying to disparage all the farmers wanting marketing choice by painting them as 'losers'. Unfortunately, that tactic reflects not upon them, but upon you. "
Unquote

I did not say all farmers that do not support the CWB are losers.

I said "There are a couple of big successful farmers in our area that do not care either way. " There are lots of other successful farmers that do not support the CWB in Western Canada but in the area where I am located I would say they mostly support the CWB.

Quote"2. Don't presume that fancy equipment always reflects financial viability. In Saskatchewan, the famers who are in the most dire straights are the big farmers. That is what my friends working in Farm Debt Review will tell you. "
unquote

I did not say nothing about fancy equipment I said " Everything is well organized the equipment is clean and well maintained" Myself I think some of the farmers that net the most money are still farming with discers and not burning everything off and using a bunch of chemical. They are the farmers that are still buying land paying thier bills and not puting all the money into fancy equipment.

Quote
3.You can disagree with someone's beliefs because they are Catholic whilst you are a Baptist. But disagree with the part of the scripture that you find egregious, don't pick on the guy's kids or his machinery or his house or his car, or his choices. In other words, keep the discussion to ideas.

It is ok for guys on this forum to cut down the CWB and everything about it but as soon as someone stands up for CWB that is not OK. I did not say any names of the farmers that I Know do not support the CWB or the guy that had battery trouble. I do not haul grain there anymore and he is lucky if anyone will as trucks do not make money unless the wheels are turning. He is no longer farming anymore.

Quote"4. And if you really want to have a discusion about the display of material wealth as an indication of a successful farmer, make sure that your finances are in order."

I never said that I was wealthy or I was right I just gave my opinion on the CWB and let out a bit of stress. My opinion is based on what I have seen the last few years and from talking to farmers. I did not say you have to agree with me if I was right or I was wrong I just wanted to express my opinion.

When someone cuts down the CWB I do not go and blast them. I like to read what they have to say and why they are saying it. Maybee they are right maybee I am wrong but let everyone has a right to thier opinion and let everyone decide for themselves. Maybee you can make me change my mind about the CWB maybee you will not.

I think with some changes the CWB could do a better job. How can they do a better job?

[Jagfarms]

chaffmeister

I will try to answer your questions.


Quote"About the CWB, you said:
“overall I think they are not doing too bad of a job.”
What specifically makes you think that"
Unquote

As the only seller of Wheat, Durum and malt barely for export in western canada they have a good reputation. I think if there was more than one seller they would try to undercut each other to gain market shares bringing smaller returns the producers. With a variety of companies bidding for limited rail capicity, grain rail freights would escalate. The export of grain would be dominated by the multinational grain companies wich currently compete against the CWB.


QUOTE
“I think they get a better price for us in the long run.”
What specifically makes you think that?
I understand what you are saying about selling at harvest. But what you may not understand is that prices are low at harvest BECAUSE people sell TOO MUCH grain for the system and end-users to absorb. So that comes with a price. And part of the problem is that these guys aren’t getting enough from their CWB grains. So they have to sell canola into a hole.

“Without the CWB we will be at the mercy of the multinationals like DUPONT, MONSANTO, ADM - not even Canadian companies.”
What specifically makes you think that?
“Once we are at the mercy of the multinationals, we may have to buy all our seed from them as well as all our farm inputs and if we don't they won't buy our product.”
What specifically makes you think that? (I’m looking for proof, not supposition.)
“The multinationals are brainwashing us trying to suck us in so that they can control us.”
What specifically makes you think that?
(Some would say that this is an apt description of the CWB.) "
UNQUOTE

If the CWB would dissapear the market would be left the Multinational grain companies and they would view western Canada as just one more place to source grain. Unlike the CWB which returns all revenue less marketing costs multinational grain companies are in the business of earning profits for their shareholders. The CWB want to maximize returns for farmers, private grain companies exist to purchase grain at the lowest possible price to maximize their own profit margin.


THe CWB earns premium prices for western Canadian farmers through its size (world largest marketer of wheat and barley) and through its ability to ensure customers of a reliable quantity and quality. These advantages will disapear with the loss of the CWB single desk selling authority. A few Canadian companies and inland producer associations would exist on small margins.

[Jagfarms]

TOM4CWB

QUOTE
I give Jag, who are you?

Incognito did a search and found out who I am see his post above.

Name: 101038614 Saskatchewan Ltd.
Date of Incorporation: Nov. 18, 2002
good ole Internet searches:

Mailing Address: Box 100, Swift Current
Main Type of Business: holding company


Name: 101038614 Saskatchewan Ltd.
Date of Amendment: Feb. 14, 2003
Amendment: changed name to Jag Farms Ltd.

http://www.angelfire.com/art2/gizen/


google me and this comes up
http://www.pinarm.com/Results/2001/0303/0303.htm
http://www.armwrestling.com/bud04.html

[Jagfarms]

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Gizen/

TOM4CWB who are you?

[Jagfarms]

chaffmeister

A lot of what I posted comes from the following books.

Saskatchewan A new History By Bill Waiser

Rats In The Grain The dirty tricks and trials of ADM the supermarket to the world by James B. Lieber

Writing off the Rural West Globalization, Government and the transformation of the rural comminities
edited by Roger Epp and Dave Whitson

[chaffmeister]

Jag – first let me say thanks for taking the time and effort to answer my questions. Far too often, I ask questions here and either get rhetoric, insincere answers, sarcasm or no response at all. Sharing opinions (as you have said) and sharing facts is what its all about. (And thanks for the book references - I may look them up.)

Below, I’ve restated some of your comments, followed by my comment.


YOU: I think if there was more than one seller they would try to undercut each other to gain market shares bringing smaller returns the producers.

ME: Actually, what grain companies as exporters want is the highest priced sale – but not for the reasons you think. If one company gets a better price than the others, he can pay farmers more – be more competitive. The last thing a grain company wants to be is the guy with the lowest priced sale. Tough to make money competing for farmers’ grain with competitors that have better sales on.


YOU: With a variety of companies bidding for limited rail capacity, grain rail freights would escalate.

ME; Rail freight rates are regulated with the Revenue Cap. Railroads can’t “escalate” their rates. They’re stuck.


YOU: The export of grain would be dominated by the multinational grain companies which currently compete against the CWB.

ME: About half the sales by the CWB are made by AEs already, some of which are the multinationals (the CWB sells to the AE, theAE sells to its customer). Even small guys like Paterson and Parrish & Heimbecker export CWB grains now. They’d continue.


YOU: Unlike the CWB which returns all revenue less marketing costs multinational grain companies are in the business of earning profits for their shareholders.

ME: Your grain is already handled by these grain companies. They are already making a profit on handling your grain.
The CWB comes at a cost. It is unclear whether the CWB makes enough over “the market” to cover its cost and still give you a net benefit.


YOU: private grain companies exist to purchase grain at the lowest possible price to maximize their own profit margin.

ME: Sorry but that’s wrong. Grain companies do not exist to purchase grain at the lowest price. If so, they would love it when prices are in the tank, and hate it when they are sky-high. But they don’t care where the price is. If they handle a million tonnes of $100 grain they will make the same amount of money if they handle a million tonnes of $300 grain (all else being the same). The grain companies compete for volume. (I worked for one once – trust me on this.)


YOU: The CWB earns premium prices for western Canadian farmers through its size (world largest marketer of wheat and barley).

ME: Afraid they don’t. This just ain’t true. If it was, they’d prove it. I’ve seen data that shows a different story. And I’ve heard from buyers that say very clearly - no premiums.


YOU: …and through its ability to ensure customers of a reliable quantity and quality.

ME: The grain companies and grain commission take care of that. To suggest that without the CWB Canada would lose its reputation of a quality supplier (as the CWB has suggested), is simply wrong.
Do you think AU would ship crap wheat overseas? Next thing that would happen is that Cargill or Dreyfus would get those customers and AU would have fewer sales. Fewer sales, less volume, less revenue, no profits. Each exporter will do their damnest to provide better quality and better service than the next guy. Competition will discipline handling charges (yes Vader – competition does keep costs in line, even for big multinationals).

[Jagfarms]

Quote
"The CWB comes at a cost. It is unclear whether the CWB makes enough over “the market” to cover its cost and still give you a net benefit"
Unquote

CWB Administration Costs per metric tonne & bushel The info show the CWB administration costs since the 1994-95 crop year up until the 2002-03 crop year (the last crop year that is available). The costs are shown in dollars per tonne and per bushel.


CWB Admin Cost tonne BU
94-95 $1.86 $0.05
95-96 $1.92 $0.05
96-97 $1.70 $0.05
97-98 $2.51 $0.07
98-99 $2.81 $0.08
99-00 $2.70 $0.09
00-01 $3.26 $0.09
01-02 $2.68 $0.07
02-03 $4.03 $0.11

[Jagfarms]

chaffmeister

It is good to hear your side of it as I said my post is mostly based on my opinion. I see your side of it as well and I have been doing research finding out facts as well and posting the facts as I see fit.

It would be good to get facts and opinions from both sides and let farmers see all the facts and not just deicide the fate of the CWB based on thier emotions.

It looks like I myself can live with the CWB Administration Costs per metric tonne & bushel for now but will keep a watch over it to see how high it goes. I wonder how much more it went up since 2003?


Like I mentioned in the first post Other crops we grow that are not CWB crops are large green lentils, small red lentils, yellow peas, maple peas, Desi chickpeas, Kabulis, Rye, Canola, canary seed, feed barley maybe some dill, anise, corriander, flax, and mustard. We have enough markets on our farm to watch and for the few cents/bu the CWB is making from me it is worth it to us for now.

This past winter I did some charts up on growing different crops on our farm with the prices for the past 10 years of the crops and the yield we have been having. I did charts for farming 1/2 and 1/2 durum and summerfollow. 1/3 2/3 with Durum or wheat, peas, lentils rotation. Then I did cont, cropping with several different crops. The way it worked out was farming 1/2 and 1/2 just durum through the CWB I would have net just about the same money over the 10 year time with a lot less risk and less expense. That is the way it looked for our farm it could be different at yours.

Someone mentioned before that is nice to have the other crops to sell to get some cashflow happening.

Last year we had large green lentils. They are still in the bin we have not sold one pound yet as the price is so poor and hopefully they do not downgrade worse than a #2. We have Canola that we sold maybee 10% just to get the tops off the binn and are hoping the price climbs. If the CWB was buying Canola with a pooling acount it would be gone already. We have red lentils that we have not sold yet. We have 2 years of maple peas that are using the space of 6 grain bins at this time that the price is very poor now and we will have to wait till maybee 2008 to sell. We have some desi chickpeas that have been in a bin for 5 years that there was no market for until now. We might clean and seed them as there is 2006 contracts with act of God for 12cents for #2 and 12.5cents for #1 available.

We just recently sold some Kabulis in the fall of 2004 that were in some bins for 3 years. We sold them at a good price but when we went to haul some some mould was in with part of them so we got discounted hard on the one load. But they still made money overall. I said I would never grow Kabulis again and this spring I broke down and purchased some Xena seed. I might try some yuma's as well.


So for us the special crops do help pay the bills but we are always hoping for a better price.


It is like that joke I heard and you most likely heard at one time about the farmer out in the feild one day and he stops the tractor and see's this cool looking bottle. He opens the bottle up and out comes this Geni. The Geni say's thak you for letting me out I will grant you 3 wishes. The farmer tells the Geni I know what I Want I only need one wish. The farmer wishes for Canary seed to go to 40cents/pound and Geni grants him his wish. The next year the farmer is in the field again and he comes accross the same bottle and he runs and grabs it and out comes the Geni again. The Geni says O you again what do you want this time and the farmer again says I want canary seed to go to 40cents/pound and the Geni say's I granted you that wish last year. The farmer say's I know but I am going to sell it this time.

I know I am like this myself. Back a few years ago I could have sold my canary seed off the combine for 40 cents/pound but I thought by Jan it would be 45 cent and I was worried about paying income tax that year so I decided to wait. I ended up selling it for 20 cents and it has gone down ever since. It might be the time to seed it now that the price has been down for quite some time.

[chaffmeister]

Jag:
There is evidence that the CWB costs more than just its admin costs. Read the first posting under "The Real CWB Balance Sheet" thread. Read more if you like, but its a long thread.

[chaffmeister]

Jag:
I wrote my last post without seeing your last one.

You are in a unique position. Most farmers could never hold production as long as you seem to. Most need the cash as soon as possible.

As I mentioned, take a look at the other thread. The CWB system has implications other than CWB prices and admin costs.

[TOM4CWB]

Jag;

I am a grain farmer from Alberta near Edmonton.

I have run against Ken Ritter twice in the last 2 CWB Elections, against Art Macklin in the 1998 District 1 election.

In 1996 the CWB refused to issue me an export license, after promising the license for the Pedigreed Seed; Canada Customs seized my Peterbuilt truck for 43 days in Milk River... but finally released it.

I need an honest CWB, and believe anything less will in the end destroy the CWB. So far the CWB has been far from truthful in many representations from the "single desk" benefits for growers to the Oil for Food AWB issue.

I must work and compete for my living; I expect nothing less for a CWB and it's workers: they need to be healthy and efficient... that will serve us in the best most honourable way.