Life After CWB

[ianben]

Hope you dont mind my input on this topic I admit I dont know too much about how the CWB is suppose to work.
My point was that it does not seem to be providing you with stable profitable prices and neither is any other system in the world.
Perhaps we could at least try something new a minimum price worldwide fixed on the internet by farmers? a percentage of yearly production we agree to market based on estimated demand so as not to over suply the market.
Anything must be better than the roller coster ride the present systems produce.

Is this BLACKMAIL?

I would call it marketing in the 21century. Has the price of a loaf dropped in your suppermarkets in line with wheat. Have you ever bought a car with 50% off, perhaps things are alot different over there.
Do you believe low grain prices are good for anyone but market speculators. I dont the price of bread does not alter in the shops, our customers do not like prices to fluctuate say their owners. Sounds good to me!
Then we farmers go crying to our governments, aid please, and the public end up paying more tax to fund it. Crazy!
The third world? Depts to finance wheat £100/ton 1ton pays off £100 Wheat £10/ton 10 tons to pay off £100. If they could use our aid to pay off their depts we might be getting somewhere.

[chas]

Ianben I'am glad to have your imput. Its refreshing (or disappointing) to find out that your systems of marketing sound exactly like ours. I think your internet idea might be the best way to approach the idea. For more information on the CWB go www.cwb.ca it tells how and why it operates but does leave a few questions like the ones that Parsley and Tom4cwb have unanswered, but that's no reason to throw the best marketing agencies we have out the window without trying to do some repair. They must remember government policy and the worlds commodities markets are
getting in the way of a true producers market through this agency. I know very
little about computers but I know with the people, the ideas we have and the experience that exsist within this website we could put together a farmer controlled marketing system that would create stability and sustainable for all producters in the main exporting countries. We will not blackmail anyone and surpluses can be marketed to feed the hungary at the cost of production paid for by the governments of the world, IMF or similiar orgnaizations that better represent the welfare of people of the world then we do. Ianben please keep up your imput on how these goals might be acomplished.Chas

[ianben]

Thanks for the support Chas. Like you I am no computer wiz just a farmer who feels like he is beening mugged every time a load of grain leaves the yard, at these ridiclous prices.Anoyed by inability to have any affect on prices just having to accept the best offer, whatever that might be.My only option as an indvidual is to try and produce more which I know is crazy with the markets over supplied.

[ianben]

Thanks for the support Chas. Like you I am no computer wiz just a farmer who feels like he is beening mugged every time a load of grain leaves the yard, at these ridiclous prices.Anoyed by inability to have any affect on prices just having to accept the best offer, whatever that might be.My only option as an indvidual is to try and produce more which I know is crazy with the markets over supplied.

[ianben]

Thanks for the support Chas. Like you I am no computer wiz just a farmer who feels like he is beening mugged every time a load of grain leaves the yard, at these ridiclous prices.Anoyed by inability to have any affect on prices just having to accept the best offer, whatever that might be.My only option as an indvidual is to try and produce more which I know is crazy with the markets over supplied.

[ianben]

Thanks for the support Chas. Like you I am no computer wiz just a farmer who feels like he is beening mugged every time a load of grain leaves the yard, at these ridiclous prices.Anoyed by inability to have any affect on prices just having to accept the best offer, whatever that might be.My only option as an indvidual is to try and produce more which I know is crazy with the markets over supplied.

[ianben]

Thanks for the support Chas. Like you I am no computer wiz just a farmer who feels like he is beening mugged every time a load of grain leaves the yard, at these ridiclous prices.Anoyed by inability to have any affect on prices just having to accept the best offer, whatever that might be.My only option as an indvidual is to try and produce more which I know is crazy with the markets over supplied.

[ianben]

[ianben]

I have not got a blue-print all mapped out just the idea really. I know it must be simple and easy for everyone to understand.Cover all comodities. Not cost too much to administer, and fit in with existing marketing arrangements.

A tall order I know but perhaps all we need to do is all agree to market say 70% 80% 90%, you tell me,of 2001 production.We all know the guy who will try it on but here is where the internet comes in.We all enter our tonnages on a website then a check could be made at random by a neighbour.
There would be no fine just a blacklist.We would all trade as before and my location could compete with your quality.The 10%,20% we have not sold goes in the rainy day retirement sabatical store I am not shore we can give it to the third world as it messes up their economies.
Thats just one idea, shoot it full of holes if you like, so long as you come up with something better.

[TOM4CWB]

Chas and ianben,

I do not understand why a voluntary CWB, Sask Pool, Agricore, UGG, or any other farmer controlled co-operative cannot provide the exact services you are asking for.

When I did the buy-back and sold wheat for a number of years into the USA, I was amazed at the grain companies’ attention to prices.

Believe it or not grain companies need grain farmers to grow grain, or they have nothing to market or sell. If we always are truly loosing money, we will surely not be growing grain any more.

My experience was that the US Grain companies’ closely tracked costs of production, and reasonable return on investment, and then actually took a position in the market place when customers were offering "profitable" prices.

Of course this is a relative term for the period that a marketer is procuring the product. When this type of system is in place, the up side potential on prices is limited, but so is the downside, almost like CWB pooling.

I see exactly the same procedure occurring with Lentils, Peas, Canola, and a variety of other special crops, in Canada today, offered by almost every Grain Company that exists.

The fact is that if I want my farm to be profitable, I must change, and do what is necessary to allow the customer to influence my production, so that I actually produce what the market needs, not what find easiest to grow!

Isn't it a novel idea, grow what your customer will pay you to grow!

Lower cost producers will grow higher volume commodities, and higher cost producers will naturally grow higher value lower volume specialty crops.

I have no problem with a co-operative marketing concept, one that allows voluntary participation. I know co-operation by willing partners will be profitable.

I do have a problem with a CWB monopoly that does not appear to reflect either the producer, or the end-user’s needs.

Why do I say this about the CWB?

CWB Pooling accounts lead to a foggy view of the market. This leads me to misuse my farm, because I cannot actually know what the market wants! Portland export prices do not reconcile with CWB buy-back charges, or PROs.

When CWES has a higher buy-back than CWRS, yet the PRO shows it is worth significantly less, I cannot take what signals the CWB provides me with, seriously. All I see is that the CWB is forcing my farm to grow Hard Red Spring Wheat.

I do not see the end user asking me to grow CWRS, in fact the opposite.

I want to grow what the end user needs, while most effectively combining the resources I am blessed with, to efficiently produce this product.

This is what should cause me to grow the grain I grow, isn’t it?

[chas]

Tom4cwb I like your marketing ablitity but a couple of questions. Is that market getting a better price for you in the last two years. If we made the CWB voluntary to make are exporting easier would that market still exsist for everyone or would the advantage disappear because of greater access to it by everyone on this side of the border. This market must be at a premium for some reason. The farmers in the USA seem to be in trouble but are unable to access these better prices so they can avoid a crisis that seems to be happening there, why is that. Chas

[ianben]

Thanks Chas,I looked up the web-site, perhaps I am a little wiser. I must admit this pooling does appear to limit your markets and concentrate on bulk exports. My surname is Bennett same as your president in 35 do not he is related though.
Tom4cwb I agree with most of what you say. I just dont think to allow prices to fall so low does anyone except speculators any good.I too will grow anything that will make a profit, but then we all dive in and we are back to square one.We could at least try something different I still believe more competion in an over supplied market must result in lower prices for everyone. Ian.

[parsley]

Chas,I didn't die, but I promised we'd take a look at who stands in the farmers' way to carrying on a business that, in a friendly way, creates wealth . What do we need changed before farmers can move forward?

The most important change farmers need..... is that governments.....either provincial or federal, cannot be a regulator and a player at the same time.


It is destructive to farmers, to Agri-business and to our country. Why? I came up with four main reasons. The first reason is this:

1. Colonialism is perpetuated.

Traditionally, industry projects in Canada have been decided 'at the top'. As we speak, governments will be centrally-planning , a tax-funded scheme, with government-appointed producers (apolitical, of course), to sit on committees-- who's stated goal will be to "to promote a real healthy ag industry". Lofty hankerings.

These 'independent and objective' committees will have the responsibility to relay their "findings" to very willing and pliable flunkies who's job it is to sell the gospel to the producer living in the provincial colonies. particularly in Alberta where folks the likes of you Chas,...... are 'different'!

All in the name of prosperous communities. And accountable to the Minister of Whatever. (Producers can immediately recognize thoe salesmen if you just listen for the buzzwords.


I'll send you the second reason why governments shouldn't be a player and a regulator, tommorow. In the meantime, stay out of the dandelion wine in the old cellar, so you can think clearly.
Parsley

[TOM4CWB]

Good to see you Parsley!

Thanks Chas and Ian, I hope this explanation helps:

I believe withholding grain (in a CWB type monopoly) from the end-user consumer is immoral and wrong. In my opinion this is the worst kind of speculation and leads to only one thing, market destabilization.

Why?

Withholding grain (food) forces the end-user consumers to buy their grain (food) from someone else (Someone who refuses to resort to greedy blackmail).

This new supplier of grain (food) is very honoured fill the void in their empty stomachs, and the consumer will remember who satisfied their hunger for a long, long time to come.

People love their food.

People starve if food is not available.

“Nothing is worse than a jilted lover” applies here, and hungry people’s memory is long when someone (like the CWB monopoly) refuses to sell them food when they were hungry.

After the speculator (the CWB type monopoly) decides that enough has been lost holding on to this grain, then the sale of this monopoly grain further drives the overall commodity price even lower, as price discounting is the only way left to regain market share.

Why?

The customer (consumer) is dishonoured by the CWB type monopoly and already has found a more honourable supplier for their most basic needs!

Therefore I submit a monopoly on food products is foolish and wrong anyway you want to slice it, isn’t it?

The CWB prevents the free flow of Canadian products between the consumer of my grain product, my customer, and myself.

Why would the Canadian Government ever set up a monopoly?

I submit it was set up to expropriate grain at less than market value in 1943 to support the War effort, feeding a hungry Europe at less than market cost.

In 1947 - 1960 after the War Measures Act was repealed it was legal for a farmer to haul his own grain he had grown, in his own wagon, and direct export it outside Canada rather than thru the CWB.

Pedigreed Seed and Manufactured Feed have been also exported outside the CWB monopoly.

Creston B.C. farmers were allowed out of the CWB Monopoly in 1983, without a vote, because it was convenient for the CWB.

Why?

Creston Wheat and Barley growers could make more money selling through the Pacific North West US than thru the CWB.

Today the CWB once again is enforcing the Monopoly as it did in 1943, without the same authorizing legislative power to expropriate a “designated area” grain farmer’s property.

The grain traders at the CWB sales desk do not know what my costs are, what I consider to be a reasonable return on my investment, or know what good reason I might have that would require me to sell my wheat tomorrow and deliver it to an elevator.

Isn’t this like “the tail is wagging the dog”?

[chas]

Parsley you took a holiday you poor old farmer you, Haven't heard from you in days, good to hear from you again. What makes you and Tom4cwb think I like government involvment in my farming operation. I think its deplorable that farmers have to resort to lobbing governments for handouts continuely, so we can go on feeding the public. I don"t blame the public,I blame ourselves for been unwilling businessmen to solve our own crisis. I favour marketing agencies similiar to the CWB without all the government politics.. You can't convince me that the open market is the answer to are problems as every other country that uses that market is in the same crisis as we are. We are the only business in the world that buys at retail and sells at wholesale with middle men cleaning up all around. I agree with you boys on alot of things but!
If you haven't read my solution to farming problems please go to Rural Issues on this website and then go into rural communities (15th item) under Chas. I wrote it several days ago for valuechainfx and I haven't heard from him since. I quess I remove all doubt with him he knows I'am on dandelion wine . Chas