Life After CWB

[parsley]

Good Morning!
The second reason why it is bad for farmers to have governments trying to be a regulator and a player at the same time is:

2. Taxation becomes government's self-interest tool

Taxation is not only a way for governments to extract money from everyone, but it allows government to select areas where the government wants the wealth to be dumped. (The Minister's home riding.) Taxpayers protest, such as nock in the Rural Issues section, but he never gets an answer, and Canada continues to tax more and more.

Most mega-deals are put together in the backrooms of Parliaments, sometimes with industry pigeons bold, hungry, and waiting to swoop. It costs you tax dollars.
They tried a heavy-water Plant in Laprade, Quebec, cost $485Million for the Feds and the province. Failed.
Avro Aviation in Ontario had $400 Million written off.
Candu Nuclear got $2Billion from the Feds
And on and on . Bottom line? Money is squandered. No industry. No manufacturing. No wealth created.

Because decisions on where industries are set up in Canada are usually based on politics, we should ask.... how effective is this? Normally, effectiveness should equal our total output, but we essentially have NO manufacturing in Canada. Little in the grain industry either. We don't manufacture those noodles in Western Canada.

Although the farmers output is phenomenal and raw-product is shipped out, is it effective? Not for farmers.

There is some hope, but it looks like the the potential value-added industry will be patterned after the raw-commodity-template. Top-down. Already government planned and somebody already selling it to you.

ianben and Tom 4CWB, that old bull is starting to lead.
Parsley

[ianben]

Hello from England
Some of you do not seem to getting my point, I think better than I speak or write, and I still do not know why only half the message went the other day.
I bought a tub of rat bait yesterday it cost £36 and it got me thinking. It cost £36 in 1995 96 97 98 99 and 00 during these years I have bought between 1 and 5 tubs.It is not the cheapest brand nor the dearest. I have tried the cheaper one and was not satisfied The rat bait manufacturer did not try to sell me rat bait at knock-down prices when I bought 1 tub nor did he rip me off when I wanted five. He knows how to MARKET. He provides a quality product at an affordable stable price and has satisfied regular customers, me anyway.
Here is why we are talking about rat bait,are rats a problem in Canada?
I also sometimes supply the wheat he uses to make the rat bait. We have,what some of you think will be the answer, we can sell to anyone. This guy wants a named variety,a long grained hard feed wheat which he slices before adding the poison, he is 5 miles from my farm.He is perhaps one of a dozen such outlets availible to me, dog biscuits, bird seed even pig and poulty producers are offering a premium for a named variety, shame that one does not yield for me.
Here is the problem they will only give a premium over the base price set by the present so called market.So the rat bait guy paid £131 when I ripped him off in June 95 and I dumped it on him for £60 in Oct 00.
This is what the present systems produce.
I would not send too many of your city dwelling countrymen to that CWB web site I was surprised how much govenment money has gone in over the years from such a small non farming population.

I would like to MARKET my grain like rat bait. They must have our problems, irattic demand,variable imputs, we see to that,etc.So how do they do it? Well first I think they realise you
CANNOT SELL RAT BAIT TO A MAN WITH NO RATS
AND YOU CANNOT SELL RAT BAIT TO A MAN WITH NO MONEY.

Then they MONITER their competitors price and remain competitive.Moniter not beat.

They do not expect to sell every kilo they can prouduce but have spare capacity to meet customer demand.

Until now we farmers have been unable to do this because we could not comunicate but the fact that I am on this web-site now proves we can.

A web-site could be created which we all logged onto before we sold grain giving us the information we need to MARKET!!!! grain like rat bait fair price regular supply satisfied customers.

Till then I suggest this site is renamed COMMODITY DUMPING when prices are low and COMMODITY RIPOFF when prices high,because if we are honest this is what we do.
Ian

[TOM4CWB]

Ian I like your spirit!

By working together we can make a stable dependable market place.

By plotting together to ripoff our hungry neighbours, 90% of who live in much less favourable conditions than do we, I submit we will only destabilize our grain market, and destroy civilization as we know it.

At the end, a fair wage for a fair days work will be the only payment we deserve. Easy street does not satisfy or create a community that will last or prosper!

When we die we can take nothing with us, other than the memories of what we did here or earth!

What will we want good memories, or bad?

[ianben]

Hi Tom
I agree with everything you say except that the present systems already produce your third sentence. If roller coaster prices are good for hungry people how come when supplies are short and they really are hungry prices are high and when they have a good harvest and need to import little prices are low.
My idea is still not getting to you as I intend so I will try again.
This web-site idea would be just a guide for each individual farmer, a marketing tool.
It would list production forcasts, estimated demand worldwide and other such data. You would then click in your
postcode area and get a SUGGESTED percentage to market and a base price then you go out and MARKET. You should be allowed to sell to anyone and everyone upto your percentage and above the base price in the area you sell.At present the percentage would be below 100 unless your area had a bad harvest but in the future may be over 100 allowing excess produce to be moved. We need this excess to STABILISE PRICE.

If it worked I would not expect much government interferance. They would be glad to see the back of whinging farmers.
The futures markets, I not so sure perhaps we could get them help the rat bait industry, because with stable prices they would be redundant.
I am off to bed now as it is gone midnight here.

Goodnight Ian

[chas]

Ianben; We don't have any rats in Alberta Canada where I live. There is a rat patrol on our borders with the rest of Canada and we have managed to keep them out(this is true). Ian I don't know where you got the idea that the CWB gets govenment money to give to farmers, that has never happened since I have dealt with the CWB. All money is from the market place to pay farmers and to cover all operating cost. The Government merely backs the board when finicial borrowing is neccesary. Parsley and Tom4cwb neither of you boys like to answer questions or admit to reading my writing on creating a stable pricing mechanism which would do away with surpluses that are created by farmers chasing a high price in one grain. This surplus situation is happening right now in corn and soybeans because of market trends and mostly by government subsidises. This all could be illimated by orderly marketing and stable pricing in all commodities. But no lets live with commodity markets and large grain traders who are really concerned with the wealth and well being of our rural communities and families who work within the agricultural industry. If you can't keep getting bigger and bigger and create volume of scale the money made will no longer support the cause in farming. You think you can market your grain for the best price, think again you haven't seen the best price and neither will I under this marketing system. I know its a lofty vision I have but God didn"t create the commodities market, Its not our answer to marketing. Now do you boys of little insight see the light. I can't explain any better. Rat Free Chas.

[ianben]

Hi Chas
So Alberta is rat free then, I did not know that, I thuoght the pesky blitters could live anywhere. I even heard they can live in a deep freeze.Yuk!
I know you guys recieve no direct cash but their are figures in the history of the CWB which surprised me. Perhaps you should take a look.
I do not want to make a big deal about who gets the most suport, the latest figures I have seen said it was the US by miles. Also sometimes we do not realise when we are being supported , Rats cost me £2000-$5000 in 97, they chewed the seed metering units in the drill to get at the seed. I bet Alberta government pay for the rat patrol. Keep them on the ball it is saving you money.
I admit I recieve subsidies that is part of the present system which I would like to change.Cheap food is not cheap if it cost you a fortune in tax.Administering our system costs a fortune before anyone gets a cent. I am sure if you are honest you get quite a few perks? tax breaks?free advice?
The point is NONE of the present systems work so lets at least try something new.
Tom and Parsley you only seem to be giving negatives I want better ideas.Knocking is too easy.
Ian

[parsley]

Chas and ianben, you're becoming my darned social life! I started another thread where I thought you could find me...CWB and Rats.... where I am finishing up your last questions about the
1) "vision of the new world unfolding" ......and

2) "then give me a positive solution on how...to market my grain".

Those are big questions, Chas,but like ianben, I am amazed that finally farmers are able to openly discuss issues on the net.

Maybe with your experience, you can answer all these questions all in one sentence. I can't.

I'm not avoiding your question about stable-pricing mechanism, but to reply, I can't pull arguments...or agreements.. out of the blue.I have to put together my thoughts, and it takes me time. It's like a maze, and we don't want to follow the same road to the poorhouse.

Chas, you are such a slave driver. Those boys of yours must have learned to work like fury. Be patient.
Parsley

[TOM4CWB]

I find that it is interesting that the CWB, with a monopoly, with a single desk, has not prevented the depopulation and closing down of our small towns and elevators!

In fact I see the CWB having the opposite result!

Why?

When the CWB threatens to force railcars to smaller elevators, what are the elevators forced to do?

Close those elevators!

I know Sask Wheat Pool, Agricore and UGG directors are not enjoying these hard decisions, but the reality of high debt and low earnings forces them to do what they do, if they want to continue doing business!

If the CWB wants to continue doing business, I beleive the Ontario example is perfect in laying out where the CWB must be pronto!

If the CWB does not want to face up to reality, the I guess we will have to deal with "Life after the CWB"

Which would be better?