why do we think the cwb markets better than us?

[Ron]

Just finished work (and road pops). Looking at the posts regarding DPC's, FPC's, STD's, VD's.
If the CWB is so freaking smart why can dumbass farmers with real jobs on the side beat the hell out of the PRO's?
Look at the numbers.
Why are we paying these monkeys to market for us?
I am half cut but why do we let the cwb screw us all the time?
What ever happened to the Alberta wheat board concept (if i remember right)?

[TOM4CWB]

Ron;

Personal responsibility is first and key to a profitable farm.

Second is that the CWB needs to facilitate, as their prime reason for existance, sales of W. Canadian grain... not make the sales themselves.

The CWB needs to serve the individuals who strive to be responsible... not be responsible for sales themselves,,, as supposed experts.

The CWB can not; and is not: smarter than the collective wisdom of those who they are resposible to.

Sadly the CWB board of directors think they are resposible to themselves... instead of those they are supposed to serve. Otherwise we would not be having this discussion.

Bottom Line:

If the CWB respected the individual assets of each grower as their key purpose and prime directive...

IMHO Not one grower would object to the single desk.

Question... does this mean the "single desk" MUST smash down our individual needs and property rights?

Furthermore... what would be a reasonable plan to convert the CWB into a service provider:

Rather than an agency who considers itself the "expert" responsible; for selling our grain?

[agstar77]

Maybe once Ron sobers up the CWB could hire him for the Japan office since he is probably fluent in many languages and not one of us dumbass farmers who can't sell boatloads of grain to Japan. lol!

[Ron]

I am now sober but definately still a dumbass farmer (I am way smarter with a beer in my hand though). just frustrated with prices 2005 vs 2006 crop. generally PO'ed with the entire concept of the communist wheat board. blah blah blah
I am quite happy with marketing my non-board crops. very frustrated over the years with the cwb options. bad enough the prices in 05 but you couldnt even sell 100% if you had to take the crappy price.
Oh well at least I dont have bins full of duram

[Ron]

I really am sober but I need spellcheck
DURUM

[agstar77]

With temps in the Dakotas in the 110 range you might wish your bins were full!! But are you happy with the price of canola and oats?

[Pulseman]

Back to Ron's question on the CWB wisdom:

Thus boys are not bad in pricipal, but have very little incentive to get the highest price for our (producers) product, why should they, do they get an incentive for achieving the highest price for us? answer: no....

Look at the feed complex. Rigth now, feeder are stealing feed barley and wheat for C$100 - 112/MT lethbridge based. The CWB is suppose to get better paying markets, but have the highest interst to secure cheap feed for the domestic market.

This goes on in most aspects. Frust/3

[poorboy]

Don't you think that the wheat board just sell x amount of grain per week on the futures and takes an average of the years price for the pool. I do not think that the cwb is really doing anything special, just getting us the average. In most marketing threads that I read most open market farmers sell for below the average price of the year. This would mean that there are a few who do exceptionally well and the majority that do poorly.

Even using the Fixed Price Contract, we have to wonder if it is all that good. Historically, the US wheat futures are in the top 1% of their trading range, yet when I go back and look at the final pool return numbers, the FPC that is quoted to me is only in the top 1/3 of offerings based on previous crop years from the CWB. The pool price could quite easily top the price of the FPC, as the basis levels change so much.

[TOM4CWB]

Poorboy;

Your "Most farmers" who sell below the average will not be in business long.

All farmers are "Open" market farmers... as the CWB sells into an open market... so how can they extract any more than the real value of our grain?

They can't.

Some other grain will fill our established markets if we get too greedy. The CWB has admitted this umpteen times.

So why can't the CWB provide a cash market 52 weeks a year?

Because the management are too lazy, and they don't want to be accountable.

It is against the CWB "Law" for CWB directors to use anything but pooling... how insane is that?

No wonder the CWB doesn't care if the PPO's serve farmers well... who that matters... in the management of the CWB...even cares?

I remember a 4-H word of wisdom... Learn by Doing.

This is supposed be the reason we have CWB farmer directors... to exclude these folks from PPO's is stupidity.

Further more... if CWB management has an inside track on marketing... then all directors must put their farms in Trusts... and not manage them... which would mean only retired grain growers could be CWB Directors.

Kind of Like telling Boeing executives they can't fly in their own planes... because they might crash!

If a CWB Director makes a specific trade... BECAUSE of inside information not avaliable to any one else...

THEN there would be a conflict of interest... once any information is public... then there is no longer a reason to prevent normal business practice.

THe US market in US$ may be high... but it isn't that high in CA$.

[poorboy]

The first thing I want to make clear is that I am not pro CWB. I am only trying to describe how I think it is that they have to sell. I also hope that more changes and options can occur so every farmer has more options.
I personally think that very little CWB grain is presold for a long time into the future. I think most buyers show up, want grain for 2 months from now and pay a rate based on the US futures market and an established basis. I would assume it is price established on the day of delivery, so there is monetary risk and futures risk on every sale.
It is a little like us buying groceries or car gas. We just show up and buy what we need and pay the price of the day.

So, if I am correct and the sales just come in random throughout the year, then it is hard for the CWB to presell a lot of product on the futures at any given time. I have trouble knowing for sure which way the market is going to go and they are no different. If hedged at a great price you look like a hero, if the market turns against you the return is less.
It becomes even tougher on a FPC or Daily price contract to have farmers set a price ahead of end user sales if the end use buyer is not actually paying for the wheat that day. If the price of wheat changes drastically, the gain/loss on the futures versus the actual selling price must be made up from the pool account. There is no other way currently to pay for a loss.

I think that there needs to be an established basis given from the board that is very good and each farmer should then have a brokerage account and look after the wheat and cdn dollar hedges themselves. Right now I feel that the basis given on the fixed and daily price contracts has a large amount of cushion in it to account for swings in the market.

As always, the true problem is the lack of transparency on the whole issue.

Tom, you have lots of CWB posts, and I think that it is time that you start posting about how you think it could improve things instead of just bitching about how it is run. Explain how it is going to manage all of the grain for a certain price and all of the grades it handles. Remember it has to move this grain through the system 12 months of the year, as the transportation and infrastucture can't handle the whole crop in a 2 month period when prices are high. Also, when you are coming up with a plan, please remember that the end users are not going to price ahead for you. The risk has to be taken somewhere else.

I think that there is a better system out there, I just don't know exactly what it looks like. Our base problem in Canada is that we export such a huge percentage of our product as compared to domestic consumption.

Perhaps there needs to be a tonnage cap on the amount of grain that is sold daily. Sort of trying to match tonnage to actual sales.