Why Object to Plebiscite?

[agmaster13]

Am I correctly summarizing the contributions against having a vote tonight?

-no vote because the question and results will never satisfy either side of the debate
-no vote because it is hard to decide who should vote (hobby farmers, landowners, urban residents etc.)
-no vote because it shouldn’t be up for debate in the first place

[cottonpicken]

Now you started it agman HA! I dont believe in the wheat board monopoly {dual marketing seems best to me}but... what about democracy? Where do you draw the line?When the crowd goes totally against you no matter what the subject,cwb,aborition,war,capital punishiment,taxes,etc,etc what is a man supose to do?Fight, or lie down and take it, or slowly constantly debate,debate,debate and change one mind at a time,or something else? I think there may be DEEP political issues at stake here.OPEC has oil we have food?I certainly dont know the answers to these questions but the only thing i constantly keep wondering is where is Tom?-maybe playing tricks on some unfortunate wheat board rep?

[AdamSmith]

Agmaster13, Yes, that's about it.

[silverback]

The only question that would be a valid one in my mind would be

"Do you agree that any farmer should be able to sell the products produced on their own land to anyone, anywhere, anytime, at whatever price he feels is right?"

A) Yes
B) No

That might be a valid plebiscite question.

[agstar77]

AS, all groups set rules for the group to follow. Doctors and nurses control who can practice etc. etc. Unfortunately you do not want someone else to set rules for you. Democracy does not mean everyone can do what they want just because they feel good. It means everyone gets to express their opinion in a free and open way, in hopes of swaying the majority to go along with them. Its way to late and this far too philisophical!!

[agstar77]

It's the principle that's important not whether you make more money or you have less stress. How many wars have been fought because of principles?

[TOM4CWB]

Cottonpicken;

Was in Lethbridge today...

Best point of the day... after the list of the 13 farmers thrown in jail for trying to make a honest living...

THat point was...

If a grain grower lived in Creston B.C.;

Or PEI...

Canadian society would praise and look favourably to the grain grower who had the initiative to take risk, work hard, and market grain outside normal marketing options...

Especially when the growers income could be improved, profit enhanced, and markets developed.

Then we needed to be winterising our farm...

Yikes... too much time spent hauling grain and working on the CWB campaign!



There can NOT be a democracy... without respect for property and civil rights.

Canada is supposed to be "a free and democratic society".

Property and civil rights are the only things that seperate communists from Canadians (except for the CWB "designated area")... the communists voted on most everything... confiscating property especially.

This issue comes straight back to the golden rule... and the common law Canada (and western civilisation)was founded upon...

1. The Common Law is based on the Golden Rule, which states;
Do unto others as you would have done unto you,
And the Negative Golden Rule, which states;
Do not do unto others as you would not have others do unto you;

2. The two fundamental principals of common law:
* Do not infringe upon the Rights, Freedoms or Property of others, and
Keep all contracts willingly, knowingly and intentionally

Common law maxims include:
* That for every wrong there is a remedy,

* The end does not justify the means,

* Fundamental principals cannot be set aside to meet the demands of convenience or to prevent apparent hardship in a particular case,

* Ignorance of the law is no excuse for breaking the law,

* Two wrongs do not make a right, and


* One can enlarge the rights of the people, however they cannot be taken away without their informed consent.

Thanks CP... I haven't had the opportunity to use my commonlaw sermon for a while now!

[TOM4CWB]

Luvnlife;

My Neighbour needs to be able to sell their families grain to the same people a grower in; Creston B.C. PEI, Ontario, Montana, or Australia can sell to...

With OUT the CWB confiscating a chunk of that families income...

with no useful CWB services rendered...

and the further requirement to sell through an "AGENT of the CWB"... unlike organic growers who are exempt from this $10/t minimum extra cost.

My neighbour is supposed to prop up the CWB pool accounts... to make your life simple... for what other reasons?

You know it is to take this hard earned money... and put it in your bank account... by why should you take my neighbour's income?

The sad fact is this:

99% of business isn't done that could be done... markets grown, expanded, consumption increased, because Goodale and the CWB decided to force everything though the "Agents of the CWB" to pad their pockets.

If we were allowed to go to pre-1992 CWB policies on the "single desk" this whole issue would be over. GONE.

But instead the lack of respect by Goodale... his Order in Council that struck down the Court Ruling which respected our property rights...

Could well bring about the end of the CWB.

[GALAXIE500]

Good morning gents! I think that Luvinlife has hit the nail on the head with the cwb topic. I feel the same way as he does that their should be a vote on whether or not the CWB continues to operate or not. I find it quite odd that all these "dual marketers" can't seem to figure out the obvious point that if they want to sell their commodities outside the board, they can. Heres another piece of rocket science for all of you guys to mull over; if you dont like the way the CWB markets wheat and durum, and lets not forget that precious barley that everybody seems so fanatical about, dont grow the stuff! If these "free marketers" think the Americans are going to take our grain with open arms they are gravely mistaken and I feel sorry for how naive their thinking is. Look at what happened to our cattle industry with the BSE scare over the last couple of years. Ol' Uncle Sam will come up with some excuse, with the help of the fanatical farm groups they have in their country, to come up with an excuse that our grain , all of it or a vast majority of it, is not fit to enter their country, creating the snowball effect !!! I give this "Dual Market " idea a couple of months and the USA will have the doors shut to their grain markets tighter than a goddamn drum! That is my dirt farmers arithmatic!

[agstar77]

T4 is demonstating democracy in action. He has a dissenting opinion and is free to express it without breaking laws or being thrown in jail. Others have the right not to agree with him and not follow him over the cliff . In Canada we have a choice of candidates in elections that have different views not like in communist dictatorships.