Why Object to Plebiscite?

[AdamSmith]

I don't know anyone who enjoys conflict, luvnlife. I don't like being in conflict with Agstar77 and I'm sure he would prefer not to be in conflict with me. But if you are passionate about something and you believe in it deeply you accept the fact that in order to achieve your goals you must endure the conflict that will arise when you stand your ground.

Luvnlife you asked who can't I sell my wheat to that I can't today. You also wanted short words and small sentences. Well let's see here, see if this works for you.

"I want to be able to sell to all the other buyers of wheat and barley out there and not be penalized for doing so"

Now why am I such a terrible person for wanting to do that for myself?

It was my decision to grow it, it was my work that made it happen, it was my money that was invested into growing it, and after all of that, I just want to be able to decide for myself where, when and to whom I sell it and without penalty.

Someone please, tell me why I am a terrible, greedy, son of a bugger, for wanting to do such a simple thing?

[agstar77]

At least we agree its the principle.

[AdamSmith]

Agstar77, yes, we agree it's principle (for you and I)


Now could you be a dear and answer my question, please.

Why, in you opinion is my belief flawed?

[TOM4CWB]

Agstar;

DO we agree those who need marketing choices... are discriminated against by the CWB?

I brought up a number of problem with the present CWB system... with no response... VALID issues.

Does anyone remember Dec 2004... when the whole CWB Election process was stopped by a Federal Court Injunction?

What was done since then to fix the election to make it democratic?

One small step by Honourable Minister Strahl... and the NFU screamed blue murder.

Perhaps these NFU folks have a conscience after all... and are having to think twice before they automatically vote more than once in the CWB Director Elections?

Or will they swear out FALSE Stat. Declarations... and vote more than once anyway?

Wouldn't a few NFU top brass in prison... for breaking the CWB election laws; be Justice?

[agstar77]

I don't have a dogmatic view of who should market my grain. I prefer the CWB system of orderly marketing. I am more concerned about the survival of Grain farming as rural enterprise. The route you are suggesting will make everyone more dependent on large corporations which don't have any particular interest in the makeup of agriculture, as long as they profit. I am not saying they are wrong, that it is just the way it is. I do think we need some strong voices to balance their power. No offence to T4, but I don't believe individual voices like his will be given much merit in the corporate boardrooms. The changes proposed by the committee,CWBII, would just end up with a large corporation to be swallowed by others. Farmers were screwed by the changes to the Crow Rate. There has been a degradation in service and an increase in cost. This gives me pause to be skeptical of any benefits killing the CWB will give me. You have not presented convincing arguements that most farmers will be better off after the CWB, at least none that I can sleep better at night with.

[AdamSmith]

Thanks Agstar77, but call me selfish, I want to understand why it's wrong headed of me to want to look after myself and why I'm portrayed as evil for wanting to look after my own affairs, without penalty? Even if I'm the only one in western Canada who feels this way? (I know I'm not) If I'm evil or irrational, tell me why please. If I'm not then why can't we develop something that can accomodate all those with differing opinions. Or is it an impossible task? Is this the future of grain farming in Canada, bitter division, from now until eternity? Do you not want something better?

Hey I accept your preference for you but why can't you accept my preference for me? I'll bend over backwards to try to address your concerns, but I will not accept that I have to surrender to you 100% of my ambitions in order to accomodate your fears.

Can you not understand, even a little bit where I'm coming from?

[wilagro]

I think that we should go back to the system that existed in the 1920's when the line elevator companies were king and could rob the stupid farmers on price, weight and grade.

That would make the 'marketing choice' people happy...and there would be no more b****ing heard from them ever again...amen.

[craig]

Wilagro
There are lots of companies that have that opportunity to rob us blind whether it is selling non board grains or buying imputs. I try to deal with people and companies who I believe I can trust. If I feel that trust is lost I simply no longer do business with them. When we get to only one player left(monopoly) then I guess it will be time to look for a new occupation.

[TOM4CWB]

Wilagro,

DO you remember the fusaruim damaged wheat in the 1993-95 time?

When the CWB and CGC told everyone to burn it... because it was worthless?

DO you remember at that time grain growers finding the same wheat that was worth $4.00 /bu in Minn/ND on the US side of the line?

Before this the CWB left us alone.

But the Pools and Large grain Co's alike made millions confiscating at $.50/bu and selling it for $4/bu IN THE US... with they did it with CWB's blessing.

This is how this whole thing got started... corruption encouraged by Dr. Doolittle... Goodale... to take from grain growers already smashed by fusarium... and sink them with CWB "single desk" robery to be put in grain co's pockets... for the biggest % of the "profits" extracted!

Wilagro... you really think the CWB system is maximising our returns...?

Think again.

It is to hold in grain supply... provide cheap food/grain for Canada, the US, and Canada's Liberal buddies.

[chaffmeister]

As it stands, all this plebiscite will do is show the split in Western Canadian farmers’ philosophy or opinion toward barley marketing – from the various and sundry surveys, we already know that. Some will skew the argument and say “this is a vote for the CWB in principle”, or “this is all about weakening the CWB”.

Wrong.

This is not about political posturing. Strahl doesn’t want your opinion – he wants you to make a decision (although collectively). Since the plebiscite is aimed at actually making a decision about the future of barley marketing in Western Canada, it must be approached by farmers differently than a survey.

The difference between a survey and a plebiscite is the difference between the questions “Would you?” and “Will you?” (At least it should be.) A survey is a “would you” question. No commitment to actually do anything; just give your opinion.

A plebiscite is a “will you” question – time to decide and live by it. To be effective, a plebiscite must be a commercial question, not a philosophical one. But a plebiscite is just another survey unless everyone clearly understands what he or she is voting for. Remember - the underlying question is “Will you?” – not “Would you”?

Will you hire this organization to work for you? Not “Do you like the idea of having someone market your barley?”

That’s right; you’re hiring these guys. Better know who and what you’re putting on the payroll and what it’s capable of doing for you. You really want to know its record. When you hire someone, you ask for references; any of you CWB supporters going to do that here?

Put an open market in place and the question remains “Will you” – will you sell grain through CWB II? In other words, will you commercially support the organization that you defend so ardently on philosophical grounds. If the answer is yes but only because of philosophical grounds, then you just don’t get it.

As a farmer, the only way I would welcome a plebiscite – on anything – is if I was confident that all voters really understood what they were voting for. In real concrete terms – not ideological terms. And I’m sorry to say that, when it comes to the CWB, nobody really knows what they need to know in order to support it. Blind faith doesn’t cut it – especially when your actions will impact others.

If the government screws up they get voted out. Nobody liked the Liberals after the sponsorship scandal and look what happened to Martin and Co. But some of you guys want to vote for the CWB’s management of your wheat and barley crop without knowing whether the CWB screws up or not.

The irony here is striking.

Irony #1: CWB supporters have wondered why open marketers don’t support a plebiscite. Could be that – once again – decisions that effect their farms are being decided by the collective, not individually.

Irony #2: CWB supporters are essentially saying we must allow someone who is better positioned, educated, astute, experienced, plugged-in, etc to market our wheat. But we must NOT allow someone who is better positioned, educated, astute, experienced, plugged-in, etc to decide whether to change that arrangement – only we as individuals can decide that. But without proper due diligence.

The only way this plebiscite will not be a philosophical “survey” is if everything you need to know about the CWB is public and available – and people do the research and understand it. And that’s not about to happen.

And that’s why it’s tough to support this or any other plebiscite.

[TOM4CWB]

Chaffmeister;

Goodale made the CWB Act ammendment that forces Minister Strahl's hand on this point.

The CWB, Liberals, ND, BQ, will all gang up on the Conservatives if they don't have a vote... and stop any change in it's tracks.

There is no other choice... the Income Trust issue... is a perfect example!

Optics are 99% of politics... whether we like it or not!

[SASKFARMER3]

First yes I hate how the CWB works and how much money They are costing me but one also has to look a little deeper at this situation. First the USA will try to shut our grain out of their system they talk the talk but they will become protectionist over night if one farm in the US is hurting.
History proves that. Montana wheat growers will object if the flood gates open.
Second if canada doesnt improve their subsidy sytem to copy the americans we as farmers will loose to because in canada when their is a special and the grain companys phone they know where the farmers need to be to let it go but in the US where they have a set price the grain companys know to get it out of the farmers hands they have to dangle a carrot bigger than the set price before a farmer will sell. In canada we just cave for pennies.
So yes the US is a big elephant and we are the mouse.

[youngbro]

Why is everybody talking about the U.S. they're not the only people we can sell our grain to. And as for Galxie saying we just shouldn't grow those grains, give your head a shake!!!

[AdamSmith]

Wilagro, are you stupid? Do you think all farmers are stupid? Like I mean literally, intellectually challenged? Are you intellectually challenged? Now I can calmly debate anyone but when people start calling others stupid, or calling me stupid, I take offence.
And if you think for one moment that anyone will be swayed by you calling all farmers stupid, then you must be….

[youngbro]

Adam u have to go easy on Wilaro, these are one of those guys who think just because here in a month or so they will get their final payment ON GRAIN THEY SOLD A YEAR AGO!!!!, that the CWB must be doing them good because they got a cheque. Watched a farmer last night on the CTV news from Yorkton, that said he wishes the CWB would market all his grains & oilseeds, because it would make his life more easy. That's what the problem here is with all these guys against the Dual Market System, they're to lazy to get off their as**s,and market their grain. Heaven forbid they have to stay home & market grain instead of getting to go to coffee row!!!! Just let the CWB do it for me, (even if I'm getting screwed) because it makes my life easier!!