Craig,
Take a little time and read this!
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32 EXHIBIT #120 FAX FROM ALIA FOR TRANSPORTATION AND GENERAL
33 TRADE, DATED 7/12/1999, TO AWB LIMITED,
34 BARCODED MAE.0001.0063
35
36 MR AGIUS: Q. I want to bring you forward to another
37 matter, Mr Emons, and that concerns what has generally been
38 referred to as the Canadian complaint. You deal with this
39 commencing at paragraph 56 of your statement. In what
40 context was it that, as you say in paragraph 56, Mr Flugge
41 approached you and said the words that you record there:
42
43 The Canadians have some problem with their
44 vessels; is there anything we can do?
45
46 A. Mr Flugge, to my recollection, had been on a trip to
47 the US and Canada with a number of other parties from AWB
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1 and during that trip he had been approached by the
2 Canadians who had obviously a problem with some vessels
3 being discharged at Umm Qasr, and out of spirit of
4 generosity to our competitors, I think Mr Flugge asked if
5 there was anything we could do to help rectify the problem.
6
7 Q. It was in that context, then, that you telephoned
8 somebody you knew at the Canadian Wheat Board?
9 A. Correct.
10
11 Q. And he told you about the problem they were having?
12 A. John Benoit was my opposite number at the Canadian
13 Wheat Board.
14
15 Q. As he expressed it to you, he said:
16
17 We have asked our government for authority
18 to pay a trucking fee. Our government is
19 asking for clarification on the trucking
20 fee.
21
22 And you said something to the effect:
23
24 The trucking fee is part of the tender.
25
26 Did he tell you as to whether or not the trucking fee had
27 been part of the tender to which the Canadian shipments
28 were a response?
29 A. No, he didn't.
30
31 Q. Is there any more to the conversation that you can
32 recall?
33 A. No, I am sorry, it is - it was a very - it was a brief
34 conversation; we discussed other matters. I was alerted to
35 the fact that the Canadian government was making inquiries
36 of the UN about the trucking fee and I passed that on to
37 Mr Officer.
38
39 Q. Then was it after you spoke to Mr Officer and told him
40 of your conversation with your counterpart at the Canadian
41 Wheat Board that he had the conversation with you that is
42 set out in paragraph 58?
43 A. Yes.
44
45 Q. Did he tell you any more than the fact that
46 Mr Snowball had received an inquiry as to the nature of the
47 AWB contracts with Iraq?
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1 A. There was some emails, I believe, from Mr Snowball
2 regarding that, which we all looked at.
3
4 Q. Did you become aware that a Canadian representative
5 had indicated that the type of arrangement that the Iraqis
6 had requested the Canadians to enter for the payment of a
7 trucking fee - that the Canadians had indicated that they
8 had been told by the Iraqis that the AWB had indeed entered
9 into such arrangements?
10 A. No, I wasn't aware of that.
11
12 Q. Were you aware that officers of DFAT met with AWB
13 employee Mr Officer in December 1999?
14 A. I'm sorry, for what purpose?
15
16 Q. To –
17 A. If I could - sorry –
18
19 Q. And during the course of that meeting he discussed
20 AWB's dealings with Iraq and the position of the Iraq
21 market?
22 A. I don't recall Mr Officer having a meeting with DFAT
23 in December of 1999. However, it was quite common to have
24 meetings with DFAT about various issues concerning the
25 markets that we dealt in.
26
27 Q. When you say "to have meetings concerning the markets
28 that we dealt in", in what sense was it common to have
29 meetings with DFAT concerning the markets?
30 A. I was requested by the government relations officers
31 at AWB once, twice maybe a year to accompany them to
32 Canberra to give an overview of the various markets that
33 I dealt in to the Department of Foreign Affairs, Primary
34 Industries and to the finance department.
35
36 Q. Did that overview ever descend into the details of any
37 arrangements, be they written contractual arrangements or
38 other arrangements, with the Iraqis?
39 A. No.
40
41 Q. Did you ever, in any of those meetings, inform a DFAT
42 officer of the arrangement that AWB had to pay trucking
43 fees to the Iraqis?
44 A. I don't recall that happening. I'm not saying it
45 wouldn't have occurred through the government relations
46 officer, but I certainly, myself, don't recall doing it.
47
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1 Q. Did you ever tell anybody at DFAT that AWB was making
2 the payment via ship owners?
3 A. No.
4
5 Q. Are you aware of any conversations within AWB which
6 indicated that DFAT had been told that the trucking fee was
7 being paid to the Iraqis?
8 A. I'm sorry, I don't recall any.
9
10 Q. Were you aware that the Austrade Commissioner had met
11 with Messrs Flugge, Snowball and McConville on 9 March
12 2000?
13 A. Yes, I was.
14
15 Q. And did you become aware of that before or after the
16 meeting?
17 A. After the meeting, I believe.
18
19 Q. Did you learn that during the course of that meeting
20 Messrs Flugge, Snowball and McConville had been told about
21 what I will generally refer to as the Canadian complaint?
22 A. Yes.
23
24 Q. Did you become aware that the Austrade Commissioner
25 had, in particular, referred to a clause in the AWB
26 contracts with the Iraqi Grain Board that had implied that
27 there was a separate contract in place?
28 A. Yes.
29
30 Q. Did you take that to be the long-form contract, or the
31 MOU between the AWB and the IGB?
32 A. That's correct.
33
34 Q. Which you knew to be silent on the issue of payments
35 of trucking fees or payments of any money to Alia or to
36 Iraq?
37 A. Yes.
38
39 Q. Is that right?
40 A. Yes.
41
42 Q. How did you become aware of that?
43 A. I believe there was an email from Tim Snowball to
44 Nigel Officer.
45
46 Q. Did you become aware that the AWB had assured DFAT
47 that there were no irregularities in its dealings with
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1 5. Bronte confirmed that the UN were
2 asking for information on the contract
3 clause above. She has put this request
4 through to DFAT in Canberra and DFAT will
5 contact you. If all the UN wants is some
6 understanding on standard terms and
7 conditions in AWB contracts then I think we
8 have nothing to worry about. We should
9 ensure that we do provide something to DFAT
10 when they contact you.
11 I deal solely with Bronte on UN/Iraq,
12 and see no role for Austrade. Alistair is
13 always trying to participate. He just
14 wants to find a revenue stream for Austrade
15 and sees the AWB's Iraq program as a good
16 way to do this. Peter G dealt with
17 Austrade when he was here, but his contact
18 has left and I think Bronte is a better
19 option for us anyway.
20
21 I am sorry, I just have a bad copy:
22
23 We do not want Alistair sticking his nose
24 into our Iraq business and causing us
25 problems. If this was a big issue he
26 should have picked up the phone straight
27 after his visit to the UN to tell me rather
28 than waste our Chairman's time in
29 Washington!!
30
31 And then he goes on to say:
32
33 With regards to the Canadian wheat vessels
34 rejected by Iraq, I did not find out much
35 from CWB.
36
37 I take it that's the Canadian Wheat Board:
38
39 We did not meet with Benoit. Bill Spafford
40 said the rejected vessels were not CWB
41 sales. There was some business done by the
42 trade to cover the Russian shorts last
43 year. SAS Pool were linked to this at the
44 time.
45 If I find out any more I will let you
46 know.
47 Regards
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1 Tim.
2
3 Well, that is a recap offered by Mr Snowball. Were you
4 aware at that time of any additional background information
5 which we do not see recorded in the email?
6 A. Background information in the nature of?
7
8 Q. Relating to the complaint by what we now know to be
9 the Canadians?
10 A. I recall now, having seen this, that the Canadian
11 Wheat Board, I think, had authorised the Saskatchewan wheat
12 pool, which is the SAS pool, to sell some wheat obviously
13 to some Russian traders with contacts to Iraq, and when
14 those vessels had been rejected, for whatever reason, the
15 Canadians became involved.
16
17 Q. Mr Snowball says, or the substance seems to be, that
18 he called the Australian mission to the UN to find out
19 whether the UN had actually requested some information
20 about the nature of the AWB contract with the IGB, and he
21 had also asked Bronte Moules to call Alistair, being
22 Alistair Nicholas from Austrade. He goes on to say that
23 she had confirmed that the UN were asking for information
24 on the contract clause and that she had forwarded that
25 request through to DFAT in Canberra, and that you were to
26 expect a contact from DFAT. It is the next sentence that
27 I want to ask you about:
28
29 If all the UN wants is some understanding
30 on standard terms and conditions in AWB
31 contracts then I think we have nothing to
32 worry about.
33
34 That seems to imply that there was something to worry
35 about, Mr Emons?
36 A. You are correct. What he was implying there is that
37 if the contract terms just listed the quality
38 specifications, conditions, et cetera, it wouldn't be an
39 issue, but if there was a mention of the trucking discharge
40 fee, then there would be an issue.
41
42 Q. Something to worry about?
43 A. Something to worry about.
44
45 Q. So if the UN inquiry could be satisfied by providing
46 the standard terms and conditions, then there would be
47 nothing to worry about because there was nothing in the
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1 standard terms and conditions which related to trucking
2 fees or the payment of money to Alia or to Iraq or anybody?
3 A. Correct.
4
5 Q. But if the UN inquiry could not be so satisfied, then
6 there would be something to worry about?
7 A. Correct.
8
9 Q. And that's the way in which you understood it?
10 A. That's correct.
11
12 Q. And, in effect, that's what you were being told to
13 keep in mind if and when you were contacted by DFAT?
14 A. That's right.
15
16 Q. Now, was this email the subject of discussion amongst
17 others at the AWB, or did you simply keep the content of it
18 to yourself?
19 A. No, there was discussion between myself, Nigel Officer
20 and other members of the desk as well, and I believe it
21 also included discussions with Andrew McConville, who was
22 the government relations officer, because in that comment
23 where they say "DFAT will contact you", it would be more
24 likely that DFAT would have contacted Andrew McConville as
25 the government liaison officer.
26
27 Q. Did DFAT contact you - that is, you personally?
28 A. I don't recall them doing so.
29
30 MR AGIUS: I tender that email, Mr Commissioner.
31
32 EXHIBIT #121 EMAIL FROM TIM SNOWBALL TO MARK EMONS,
33 DATED 15/3/2000, BARCODED MAE.0002.0091
34
35 MR AGIUS: Q. You then prepared a facsimile which you
36 sent off to the new Director-General of the IGB. Could we
37 bring up, please, AWB.0136.0524. This appears to be a fax
38 from yourself to Mr Yousif A Rahman, who I think generally
39 is referred to as Mr Yousif, at the Grain Board of Iraq, of
40 15 March 2000, from you, in which you say:
41
42 We wish to advise that the office of AWB
43 Ltd in New York has been approached by the
44 Customs office of the United Nations who
45 are questioning the payments by AWB to the
46 Jordanian trucking company.
47 We are very concerned to learn from the UN
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1 that the Canadian Government has taken
2 action within the United Nations to
3 discover the manner of AWB payments.
4 We ask your assistance in this matter and
5 would ask that no information of a
6 confidential nature is released.
7 We will be seeking your understanding on
8 this matter when AWB visits Iraq in April.
9 We thank you in anticipation.
10
11 You sent that fax off?
12 A. Yes.
13
14 Q. If we go to the next document, which is AWB.0136.0526,
15 this appears to be a communication from the Grain Board of
16 Iraq to the AWB Limited, to your attention, regarding UN
17 inquiry concerning trucking fee:
18
19 We received with thanks your fax dated
20 15 March 2000 and we are pleased to inform
21 you that the necessary action already have
22 been taken regarding the matter.
23 Best regards
24
25 That's a telex or communication of some kind that you
26 received from the IGB?
27 A. Correct.
28
29 MR AGIUS: I tender those two documents.
30
31 EXHIBIT #122 FAX FROM MR EMONS TO MR YOUSIF A RAHMAN AT THE 32 GRAIN BOARD OF IRAQ, DATED 15/3/2000,
33 BARCODED AWB.0136.0524; AND COMMUNICATION FROM THE GRAIN
34 BOARD OF IRAQ TO AWB LIMITED, BARCODED AWB.0136.0526
35
36 MR AGIUS: Q. Mr Emons, were these documents kept in any
37 kind of file at the AWB?
38 A. Behind the trading desks there was a large file
39 compactus which had all the information regarding every
40 market that we dealt with filed away in contract order. It
41 was a public filing area where people from all departments
42 could have access to various contracts and information.
43
44 Q. Could I take you to another document in relation to
45 this matter. Could we bring up AWB.5117.0226. If you go
46 to the bottom of that page, this appears to be an email
47 from Andrew McConville of 31 March 2000 to you regarding
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1 That appears, then, to be telexes concerning suspected
2 arrears of payment of the trucking fee in respect of two
3 vessels which were forwarded to the AWB by Alia?
4 A. Yes, that's right.
5
6 Q. It appears, then, that the system was that it was the
7 ISCWT who would inform Alia of the lateness of payments,
8 and then Alia would pass on the ISCWT's request to the AWB?
9 A. Yes, that confirms what I said earlier, yes.
10
11 MR AGIUS: I tender those two documents. Perhaps they
12 should be marked as a confidential exhibit and Mr Judd
13 might consider them.
14
15 THE COMMISSIONER: Is there anything confidential in this,
16 Mr Judd?
17
18 MR JUDD: The copy I have on the screen is very poor.
19
20 THE COMMISSIONER: I will make them a public exhibit, but
21 I will make an order that they are not to be published at
22 this point of time. You might let me know if you wish to
23 claim confidentiality.
24
25 EXHIBIT #125 TWO FAXES TO AWB LIMITED, DATED 19/12/1999,
26 BARCODED MAE.0003.0012 AND MAE.0003.0013
27
28 THE COMMISSIONER: They are not to be published, pending
29 receipt of advice as to whether confidentiality is claimed.
30
31 MR AGIUS: Q. Whilst we are dealing with early 2000,
32 Mr Emons, I want to bring you to a document which you have
33 provided the inquiry. It relates to a meeting concerning
34 the code of conduct, which meeting was apparently held on
35 2 February 2000?
36 A. Correct.
37
38 Q. When I speak of the code of conduct, I am speaking of
39 what we have as exhibit 22. We have not been able to
40 establish the date of this particular document. Could we
41 bring up, please, AWB.0131.0023. If we go to the next
42 page, you will see that this copy of the code of conduct
43 includes an introduction which is signed by Mr Lindberg as
44 managing director, and we know that he followed on from
45 Mr Rogers.
46
47 THE COMMISSIONER: So it must be post May 2000 or April
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1 2000.
2
3 THE WITNESS: March, I believe, Commissioner, but I stand
4 corrected.
5
6 MR AGIUS: Q. Could we bring up, please, MAE.0003.0063.
7 These appear as "Notes of Meeting on Code of Conduct" held
8 on 2 February 2000 in the second floor meeting room. It is
9 a meeting that you attended, Mr Emons?
10 A. Yes, it was.
11
12 Q. The meeting concerned the code of conduct?
13 A. It did.
14
15 Q. Can you relate the meeting to the document that you
16 have seen, which was exhibit 22?
17 A. Yes, I can.
18
19 Q. What's the relationship?
20 A. The relationship with the document concerns the
21 facilitation payments and fees issue.
22
23 Q. The meeting is on 2 February. The published code of
24 conduct that we have is signed by Mr Lindberg?
25 A. Correct.
26
27 Q. It is not likely that he would have signed it as an
28 officer of AWB prior to this meeting of 2 February?
29 A. Not likely, no.
30
31 Q. What is the temporal relationship?
32 A. The concern for myself and my colleagues was that it
33 was - the corporation was asking the individual to take the
34 responsibility on for the actions that the corporation had
35 sanctioned. In my parlance, it was evidence of more Teflon
36 management.
37
38 Q. Can you assist us? What do you mean by "Teflon
39 management"?
40 A. That all responsibilities and actions of the
41 organisation were trying to be passed down to the
42 individual.
43
44 Q. And the meeting had been called to deal with the
45 request by AWB that individuals –
46 A. Sign this agreement, yes.
47
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32 EXHIBIT #120 FAX FROM ALIA FOR TRANSPORTATION AND GENERAL
33 TRADE, DATED 7/12/1999, TO AWB LIMITED,
34 BARCODED MAE.0001.0063
35
36 MR AGIUS: Q. I want to bring you forward to another
37 matter, Mr Emons, and that concerns what has generally been
38 referred to as the Canadian complaint. You deal with this
39 commencing at paragraph 56 of your statement. In what
40 context was it that, as you say in paragraph 56, Mr Flugge
41 approached you and said the words that you record there:
42
43 The Canadians have some problem with their
44 vessels; is there anything we can do?
45
46 A. Mr Flugge, to my recollection, had been on a trip to
47 the US and Canada with a number of other parties from AWB
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1 and during that trip he had been approached by the
2 Canadians who had obviously a problem with some vessels
3 being discharged at Umm Qasr, and out of spirit of
4 generosity to our competitors, I think Mr Flugge asked if
5 there was anything we could do to help rectify the problem.
6
7 Q. It was in that context, then, that you telephoned
8 somebody you knew at the Canadian Wheat Board?
9 A. Correct.
10
11 Q. And he told you about the problem they were having?
12 A. John Benoit was my opposite number at the Canadian
13 Wheat Board.
14
15 Q. As he expressed it to you, he said:
16
17 We have asked our government for authority
18 to pay a trucking fee. Our government is
19 asking for clarification on the trucking
20 fee.
21
22 And you said something to the effect:
23
24 The trucking fee is part of the tender.
25
26 Did he tell you as to whether or not the trucking fee had
27 been part of the tender to which the Canadian shipments
28 were a response?
29 A. No, he didn't.
30
31 Q. Is there any more to the conversation that you can
32 recall?
33 A. No, I am sorry, it is - it was a very - it was a brief
34 conversation; we discussed other matters. I was alerted to
35 the fact that the Canadian government was making inquiries
36 of the UN about the trucking fee and I passed that on to
37 Mr Officer.
38
39 Q. Then was it after you spoke to Mr Officer and told him
40 of your conversation with your counterpart at the Canadian
41 Wheat Board that he had the conversation with you that is
42 set out in paragraph 58?
43 A. Yes.
44
45 Q. Did he tell you any more than the fact that
46 Mr Snowball had received an inquiry as to the nature of the
47 AWB contracts with Iraq?
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1 A. There was some emails, I believe, from Mr Snowball
2 regarding that, which we all looked at.
3
4 Q. Did you become aware that a Canadian representative
5 had indicated that the type of arrangement that the Iraqis
6 had requested the Canadians to enter for the payment of a
7 trucking fee - that the Canadians had indicated that they
8 had been told by the Iraqis that the AWB had indeed entered
9 into such arrangements?
10 A. No, I wasn't aware of that.
11
12 Q. Were you aware that officers of DFAT met with AWB
13 employee Mr Officer in December 1999?
14 A. I'm sorry, for what purpose?
15
16 Q. To –
17 A. If I could - sorry –
18
19 Q. And during the course of that meeting he discussed
20 AWB's dealings with Iraq and the position of the Iraq
21 market?
22 A. I don't recall Mr Officer having a meeting with DFAT
23 in December of 1999. However, it was quite common to have
24 meetings with DFAT about various issues concerning the
25 markets that we dealt in.
26
27 Q. When you say "to have meetings concerning the markets
28 that we dealt in", in what sense was it common to have
29 meetings with DFAT concerning the markets?
30 A. I was requested by the government relations officers
31 at AWB once, twice maybe a year to accompany them to
32 Canberra to give an overview of the various markets that
33 I dealt in to the Department of Foreign Affairs, Primary
34 Industries and to the finance department.
35
36 Q. Did that overview ever descend into the details of any
37 arrangements, be they written contractual arrangements or
38 other arrangements, with the Iraqis?
39 A. No.
40
41 Q. Did you ever, in any of those meetings, inform a DFAT
42 officer of the arrangement that AWB had to pay trucking
43 fees to the Iraqis?
44 A. I don't recall that happening. I'm not saying it
45 wouldn't have occurred through the government relations
46 officer, but I certainly, myself, don't recall doing it.
47
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1 Q. Did you ever tell anybody at DFAT that AWB was making
2 the payment via ship owners?
3 A. No.
4
5 Q. Are you aware of any conversations within AWB which
6 indicated that DFAT had been told that the trucking fee was
7 being paid to the Iraqis?
8 A. I'm sorry, I don't recall any.
9
10 Q. Were you aware that the Austrade Commissioner had met
11 with Messrs Flugge, Snowball and McConville on 9 March
12 2000?
13 A. Yes, I was.
14
15 Q. And did you become aware of that before or after the
16 meeting?
17 A. After the meeting, I believe.
18
19 Q. Did you learn that during the course of that meeting
20 Messrs Flugge, Snowball and McConville had been told about
21 what I will generally refer to as the Canadian complaint?
22 A. Yes.
23
24 Q. Did you become aware that the Austrade Commissioner
25 had, in particular, referred to a clause in the AWB
26 contracts with the Iraqi Grain Board that had implied that
27 there was a separate contract in place?
28 A. Yes.
29
30 Q. Did you take that to be the long-form contract, or the
31 MOU between the AWB and the IGB?
32 A. That's correct.
33
34 Q. Which you knew to be silent on the issue of payments
35 of trucking fees or payments of any money to Alia or to
36 Iraq?
37 A. Yes.
38
39 Q. Is that right?
40 A. Yes.
41
42 Q. How did you become aware of that?
43 A. I believe there was an email from Tim Snowball to
44 Nigel Officer.
45
46 Q. Did you become aware that the AWB had assured DFAT
47 that there were no irregularities in its dealings with
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1 5. Bronte confirmed that the UN were
2 asking for information on the contract
3 clause above. She has put this request
4 through to DFAT in Canberra and DFAT will
5 contact you. If all the UN wants is some
6 understanding on standard terms and
7 conditions in AWB contracts then I think we
8 have nothing to worry about. We should
9 ensure that we do provide something to DFAT
10 when they contact you.
11 I deal solely with Bronte on UN/Iraq,
12 and see no role for Austrade. Alistair is
13 always trying to participate. He just
14 wants to find a revenue stream for Austrade
15 and sees the AWB's Iraq program as a good
16 way to do this. Peter G dealt with
17 Austrade when he was here, but his contact
18 has left and I think Bronte is a better
19 option for us anyway.
20
21 I am sorry, I just have a bad copy:
22
23 We do not want Alistair sticking his nose
24 into our Iraq business and causing us
25 problems. If this was a big issue he
26 should have picked up the phone straight
27 after his visit to the UN to tell me rather
28 than waste our Chairman's time in
29 Washington!!
30
31 And then he goes on to say:
32
33 With regards to the Canadian wheat vessels
34 rejected by Iraq, I did not find out much
35 from CWB.
36
37 I take it that's the Canadian Wheat Board:
38
39 We did not meet with Benoit. Bill Spafford
40 said the rejected vessels were not CWB
41 sales. There was some business done by the
42 trade to cover the Russian shorts last
43 year. SAS Pool were linked to this at the
44 time.
45 If I find out any more I will let you
46 know.
47 Regards
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1 Tim.
2
3 Well, that is a recap offered by Mr Snowball. Were you
4 aware at that time of any additional background information
5 which we do not see recorded in the email?
6 A. Background information in the nature of?
7
8 Q. Relating to the complaint by what we now know to be
9 the Canadians?
10 A. I recall now, having seen this, that the Canadian
11 Wheat Board, I think, had authorised the Saskatchewan wheat
12 pool, which is the SAS pool, to sell some wheat obviously
13 to some Russian traders with contacts to Iraq, and when
14 those vessels had been rejected, for whatever reason, the
15 Canadians became involved.
16
17 Q. Mr Snowball says, or the substance seems to be, that
18 he called the Australian mission to the UN to find out
19 whether the UN had actually requested some information
20 about the nature of the AWB contract with the IGB, and he
21 had also asked Bronte Moules to call Alistair, being
22 Alistair Nicholas from Austrade. He goes on to say that
23 she had confirmed that the UN were asking for information
24 on the contract clause and that she had forwarded that
25 request through to DFAT in Canberra, and that you were to
26 expect a contact from DFAT. It is the next sentence that
27 I want to ask you about:
28
29 If all the UN wants is some understanding
30 on standard terms and conditions in AWB
31 contracts then I think we have nothing to
32 worry about.
33
34 That seems to imply that there was something to worry
35 about, Mr Emons?
36 A. You are correct. What he was implying there is that
37 if the contract terms just listed the quality
38 specifications, conditions, et cetera, it wouldn't be an
39 issue, but if there was a mention of the trucking discharge
40 fee, then there would be an issue.
41
42 Q. Something to worry about?
43 A. Something to worry about.
44
45 Q. So if the UN inquiry could be satisfied by providing
46 the standard terms and conditions, then there would be
47 nothing to worry about because there was nothing in the
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1 standard terms and conditions which related to trucking
2 fees or the payment of money to Alia or to Iraq or anybody?
3 A. Correct.
4
5 Q. But if the UN inquiry could not be so satisfied, then
6 there would be something to worry about?
7 A. Correct.
8
9 Q. And that's the way in which you understood it?
10 A. That's correct.
11
12 Q. And, in effect, that's what you were being told to
13 keep in mind if and when you were contacted by DFAT?
14 A. That's right.
15
16 Q. Now, was this email the subject of discussion amongst
17 others at the AWB, or did you simply keep the content of it
18 to yourself?
19 A. No, there was discussion between myself, Nigel Officer
20 and other members of the desk as well, and I believe it
21 also included discussions with Andrew McConville, who was
22 the government relations officer, because in that comment
23 where they say "DFAT will contact you", it would be more
24 likely that DFAT would have contacted Andrew McConville as
25 the government liaison officer.
26
27 Q. Did DFAT contact you - that is, you personally?
28 A. I don't recall them doing so.
29
30 MR AGIUS: I tender that email, Mr Commissioner.
31
32 EXHIBIT #121 EMAIL FROM TIM SNOWBALL TO MARK EMONS,
33 DATED 15/3/2000, BARCODED MAE.0002.0091
34
35 MR AGIUS: Q. You then prepared a facsimile which you
36 sent off to the new Director-General of the IGB. Could we
37 bring up, please, AWB.0136.0524. This appears to be a fax
38 from yourself to Mr Yousif A Rahman, who I think generally
39 is referred to as Mr Yousif, at the Grain Board of Iraq, of
40 15 March 2000, from you, in which you say:
41
42 We wish to advise that the office of AWB
43 Ltd in New York has been approached by the
44 Customs office of the United Nations who
45 are questioning the payments by AWB to the
46 Jordanian trucking company.
47 We are very concerned to learn from the UN
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1 that the Canadian Government has taken
2 action within the United Nations to
3 discover the manner of AWB payments.
4 We ask your assistance in this matter and
5 would ask that no information of a
6 confidential nature is released.
7 We will be seeking your understanding on
8 this matter when AWB visits Iraq in April.
9 We thank you in anticipation.
10
11 You sent that fax off?
12 A. Yes.
13
14 Q. If we go to the next document, which is AWB.0136.0526,
15 this appears to be a communication from the Grain Board of
16 Iraq to the AWB Limited, to your attention, regarding UN
17 inquiry concerning trucking fee:
18
19 We received with thanks your fax dated
20 15 March 2000 and we are pleased to inform
21 you that the necessary action already have
22 been taken regarding the matter.
23 Best regards
24
25 That's a telex or communication of some kind that you
26 received from the IGB?
27 A. Correct.
28
29 MR AGIUS: I tender those two documents.
30
31 EXHIBIT #122 FAX FROM MR EMONS TO MR YOUSIF A RAHMAN AT THE 32 GRAIN BOARD OF IRAQ, DATED 15/3/2000,
33 BARCODED AWB.0136.0524; AND COMMUNICATION FROM THE GRAIN
34 BOARD OF IRAQ TO AWB LIMITED, BARCODED AWB.0136.0526
35
36 MR AGIUS: Q. Mr Emons, were these documents kept in any
37 kind of file at the AWB?
38 A. Behind the trading desks there was a large file
39 compactus which had all the information regarding every
40 market that we dealt with filed away in contract order. It
41 was a public filing area where people from all departments
42 could have access to various contracts and information.
43
44 Q. Could I take you to another document in relation to
45 this matter. Could we bring up AWB.5117.0226. If you go
46 to the bottom of that page, this appears to be an email
47 from Andrew McConville of 31 March 2000 to you regarding
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1 That appears, then, to be telexes concerning suspected
2 arrears of payment of the trucking fee in respect of two
3 vessels which were forwarded to the AWB by Alia?
4 A. Yes, that's right.
5
6 Q. It appears, then, that the system was that it was the
7 ISCWT who would inform Alia of the lateness of payments,
8 and then Alia would pass on the ISCWT's request to the AWB?
9 A. Yes, that confirms what I said earlier, yes.
10
11 MR AGIUS: I tender those two documents. Perhaps they
12 should be marked as a confidential exhibit and Mr Judd
13 might consider them.
14
15 THE COMMISSIONER: Is there anything confidential in this,
16 Mr Judd?
17
18 MR JUDD: The copy I have on the screen is very poor.
19
20 THE COMMISSIONER: I will make them a public exhibit, but
21 I will make an order that they are not to be published at
22 this point of time. You might let me know if you wish to
23 claim confidentiality.
24
25 EXHIBIT #125 TWO FAXES TO AWB LIMITED, DATED 19/12/1999,
26 BARCODED MAE.0003.0012 AND MAE.0003.0013
27
28 THE COMMISSIONER: They are not to be published, pending
29 receipt of advice as to whether confidentiality is claimed.
30
31 MR AGIUS: Q. Whilst we are dealing with early 2000,
32 Mr Emons, I want to bring you to a document which you have
33 provided the inquiry. It relates to a meeting concerning
34 the code of conduct, which meeting was apparently held on
35 2 February 2000?
36 A. Correct.
37
38 Q. When I speak of the code of conduct, I am speaking of
39 what we have as exhibit 22. We have not been able to
40 establish the date of this particular document. Could we
41 bring up, please, AWB.0131.0023. If we go to the next
42 page, you will see that this copy of the code of conduct
43 includes an introduction which is signed by Mr Lindberg as
44 managing director, and we know that he followed on from
45 Mr Rogers.
46
47 THE COMMISSIONER: So it must be post May 2000 or April
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1 2000.
2
3 THE WITNESS: March, I believe, Commissioner, but I stand
4 corrected.
5
6 MR AGIUS: Q. Could we bring up, please, MAE.0003.0063.
7 These appear as "Notes of Meeting on Code of Conduct" held
8 on 2 February 2000 in the second floor meeting room. It is
9 a meeting that you attended, Mr Emons?
10 A. Yes, it was.
11
12 Q. The meeting concerned the code of conduct?
13 A. It did.
14
15 Q. Can you relate the meeting to the document that you
16 have seen, which was exhibit 22?
17 A. Yes, I can.
18
19 Q. What's the relationship?
20 A. The relationship with the document concerns the
21 facilitation payments and fees issue.
22
23 Q. The meeting is on 2 February. The published code of
24 conduct that we have is signed by Mr Lindberg?
25 A. Correct.
26
27 Q. It is not likely that he would have signed it as an
28 officer of AWB prior to this meeting of 2 February?
29 A. Not likely, no.
30
31 Q. What is the temporal relationship?
32 A. The concern for myself and my colleagues was that it
33 was - the corporation was asking the individual to take the
34 responsibility on for the actions that the corporation had
35 sanctioned. In my parlance, it was evidence of more Teflon
36 management.
37
38 Q. Can you assist us? What do you mean by "Teflon
39 management"?
40 A. That all responsibilities and actions of the
41 organisation were trying to be passed down to the
42 individual.
43
44 Q. And the meeting had been called to deal with the
45 request by AWB that individuals –
46 A. Sign this agreement, yes.
47
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