Investment in biodiesel

[wd9]

As a grower would you invest in a biodiesel plant?

What type of a grower participation program would you like to see interms of incentives or tax breaks?

Given the Renewable Fuel Strategy (the rules) for renewable energy have not been yet announced, how are you deciding on whether or not the investment is pure speculation or a solid investment?

Does the new technology of in house hydro-treating (NEXBTL, hydro-cracking, super cetane....) done at the refinery make the investment seem short term?

Will canola be the feedstock of last resort given it's price and the price of oil and how will that affect canola price, inelastic demand and future growth.

Will yellow grease (the recycling of used frying oil) affect the future demand of canola oil and production and ultimately the price of canola in the future?

With all the crushing coming onstream how will the price of meal be affected in Canada and will it come out of or benefit the price of delivered canola seed?

Should farmers have invested in oil crushing and not talked so long about biodiesel and potentially missed the greater opportunity?

So many questions, so little time.

[wd9]

Sorry, should have asked the question: Should biodiesel in Canada be sold single desk thru the CWB?

[melvill]

Wow, wd9, your last question tells me you like to live on the edge OR you have the U.S. Secret Service lookin' after you!

[AdamSmith]

WD9,

As a grower would you invest in a biodiesel plant?

No.

I haven't invested in canola crushing or malting or milling or oat processing or..

It's not that I don't think these things are not worthy investments but I really have no great interest in owning 1% or.25% of a startup company.

IMHO We need a stategy to attract some of the billions of investment dollars that are looking for a home and put them to work here in the prairies.

When a farmer takes say 50 Large and plops it into a value added plant he is taking capital out of his farm and investing it into a non farm investment right. I want this non farm investment to have a solid track record of profit and growth.

If it's a new start up, what makes it any different than any other start up.

The only way I would invest is if I knew I could afford to lose the whole investment and not bat an eye at it.

If there is a premium attached to grain deliveries for investors isn't that making the investment less competitive and more likely to fail?

I'm not knocking those who want to invest, I just view these things as high risk and that if I had that kind of extra cash kicking around I would rather buy shares in a solid blue chip that has a proven track record or better yet a New Pontiac Solstice or Chrysler Crossfire and enjoy life.

[rain]

This may be a dumb quesation, I do not read any farm news papers. Is canola being looked at for biodiesel in North America? If so by who and where?

Thanks

[wd9]

Rain, the majority in the US is soy based - remember the oil is the byproduct, with canola the meal is the byproduct. Imports of palm in the future will count to a portion and rendered fats will make up a few more of the total.

The most plentiful oil in Canada is canola, but then the cost kinda forces it to last resort. Although Europe imports it for it's production and given it's straight line expansion this need will continue to grow. Oil only not whole seed to Europe which has spurred on a big chunk of the expansion of crushing in Canada.

Seed exports maybe by 08 in europe - like 70% chance if all goes well. Until then oil from GMO canola for biodiesel only.

AS, Thanks for the honest answer.

[cottonpicken]

Hard numbers
ethanol is more efficent than bio-diesel
10-litres of ethanol/bushell grain
ethanol price=67 cents/litre /-
need i say more

[wd9]

Cottonpicken, do some research. Try google.ca and type in energy balance, ethanol, biodiesel. You'll find a 1 to maybe 1 on ethanol and a 3 to 1 on BD.

Some day biofuels value and policy will hopefully be based on environmental impact and energy balance as opposed to popularity and the "golly gee whiz that sounds kinda neat - alcohol from grain" factor!

[cottonpicken]

Research?
I was researching this 3 years ago with my brother who has his masters degree in fluid dynamics and who HAS operated a small scale bio-diesel plant.We also have 600 litres of used cooking oil "settiling" out on our shop floor right now.

The most profitable ethanol production is sugar cane-but i'm sure you new that already.
Next time i talk to him(hes in cuba) i'll get the exact efficency numbers but i'm pretty sure ethanol is about 20% more efficent than bio-diesel.
I'll also say that i posted this info quite a while ago and i'll see if i can find it.
WD9 you should try and stay ahead of the cuve instead of behind it-you'll make more money and wont sound like such an idiot.

[rain]

cottenpicken can you walk straight with that huge chip on your shoulder?

[cottonpicken]

Oh thats right i'm the only one here not aloud to defend myself.Arnt you missing a date with mommy rain?

[wd9]

Cottonpicken, make your own topic heading of relative energy output. The process of methyl ester production is much simpler than the production of ethanol and I look forward in the short time we have left to reading from you how ethanol is more efficient. Let your brilliance be a beacon to us all.

This post is about the effect of farmer participation of a methyl ester biodiesel plant ownership and the commodity pricing of oilseeds directly affected by RFS policy. After all, commodities and their prices, and factors influencing their prices should be discussed at the commodities forum.

There are also plenty of other CWB posts to display your bitterness and frustration at.

[rain]

cottenpicken. I wish I had a date with my mommy.

She died 13 years ago from cancer we were all with hera at the hospital when she died. Quite frankly it was a very sad day for me.

She has two grandsons she never met. the realy sad part is they never got to know her or learn what she was like. How are your parents? Are they alive? Have you told them you love them. Sure wish I could tell my mommy I love her!

[wd9]

Anyone thought about what the upcoming 6 million tonnes of crush is going to do to meal prices? Will that affect seed prices by devaluing it? The protein complex affects with the necessity of carbohydrates to match the protein thereby affecting barley prices?

Some of you guys have got to thinking about this stuff, right?

[rain]

protein prices have notheing to do with barley prices. as long as the domestic hog market gets know worse, meal will be absorbed. Canola has always been crushed for the oil, canola meal is a weak byproduct prtein is to low.