The big bio fuel plant?

[cowman]

Anyone heard anymore info on that proposed crusher/bio deisel/ ethanol plant that the Cargyle group out of New York is going to build in central Alberta?
I haven't heard anymore since they said they had a short list of three locations?
About three weeks ago I attended a customer appreciation night put on by the local fertilizer dealer and the owner gave a good long speech on bio fuel in general and hinted that this area(south of Red Deer) was on the short list!
It was also very interesting that he talked about how high starch barley might actually make a better feedstock for ethanol than wheat? He said the barley growers had been doing a lot of research in this area?
He also claimed his group (Agrium) wasn't that far away from bringing in a carbon credit program that would probably come into affect in 2008! He speculated on pasture being in that $35/acre range!

[wd9]

Nope! Haven't.

[TOM4CWB]

Cowman,

I heard that 7 municipalities think they are the chosen one... and that the track record of these people is unproven at best!...

How many other plants have they built before this project?

[Braveheart]

Cowman, I can't help you with Alberta news as I'm from Manitoba. But with respect to barley, the company doing the feasibility study for our local project told us that barley was not a good choice for ethanol. They said that it was too abrasive for the milling equipment and would cause quicker depreciation resulting in higher costs.

[furrowtickler]

Is this hulless barley?

[cowman]

I think they were researching hulless barley? I know the fertilizer dealer was talking about it? I might not have caught the whole message as my neighbor was busy trying to lay the wisdom on me about feeding steers! LOL
TOM: If you do a google search on Riverstone Energy(actual company doing this thing...the Carlyle group are basically the financers) you will see they have a lot of projects on the go? And the number of people involved from both the Clinton and Bush administration...means these guys are heavy hitters in the bio fuel business?
As I said the three areas I heard made the short list are south of Red Deer, Westlock, Camrose? Now that isn't the gospel...just the rumors going around? I just wonder why after the initial announcement it is taking so long...I mean they said construction should begin in early 2007?
The south Red Deer site has a lot going for it...except maybe for a water supply? Which could be solved by the regional pipeline being built within the next year. Don't know what the water situation is at Camrose or Westlock?
I would think the three municipalities on the short list would be bending over backwards to get this huge plant?
The good news though for all farmers is a huge market for canola, wheat and maybe barley?...hmmm might be time to get the old plow out and start ripping up the grass!

[furrowtickler]

Hulless barley is/will being used for ethonal by FarmCorp at Rosthern Sask.

[Braveheart]

I hadn't thought of hulless barley. It is less abrasive than hulled barley, but, are there any varieties that yield enough to make the economics work? Here in southern MB we're looking at winter wheat which outyields hulless barley by 10-15 bushels per acre.

[furrowtickler]

There are some valuable by products from hulless barley that make it very viable from what I am told.

[Zaphod]

I'm not sure about the other sites, but Camrose would work well for rail access. Ethanol can't be pipelined and has to go by truck or rail.

Speaking of rumours, has anybody heard anything about the JRI canola crusher being switched from Yorkton to Brandon?

[wd9]

Corn 70% starch, Barley 60% starch on average. Wheat is around 65%. Sorghum is about 75%.

The challenge with barley is the betaglucan which makes a sticky goo for mixing. New processes to remove BG are also being researched.

An enzyme breaks down the BG to oligosaccharides, but is another step and cost. I think there is potential for barley though.

The 'Group' I am sure is waiting for the governments RFS announcement, specifically tax parity with the US, before making any moves officially, just guessing though.

[charliep]

Where does triticale fit in the ethanol world? I have heard some mention as a good substitute for wheats (particularly brown soil zones).

[wd9]

Zaphod, but butanol can. CH4 as opposed to CH3.

[ado089]

We really need to be looking at field peas for ethanol. They are roughly 46% starch and 23% protein. The protein is easily stripped out via air fractioning and can be sold a high value protein supplement. The starch has been shown to pruduce simalar amounts of ethanol as corn starch. The real benefit of peas is that it frees us from the grasp of the oil companies. This big ethanol push has resulted in a 10% increase in corn acres which inturn has resulted in a 1 million tone shortage of urea in North America. As as result of this shortage NOLA urea is trading for $275/t and is expected to hit the $300/t mark. Last years high was $267/t to put things into context. So before we get too excited about ethanol we should look at the repercutions of what crops we use for it.

[cowman]

Okay I phoned my county councillor and she told me they have been "heavily involved" in trying to entice this project? Apparently they have been moving heaven and earth to get it done, here!
Her best guess(if it works out for here) Is just south of Bowden Alberta on the spur line or at Niobe(just north of Innisfail) about 8 miles south of Red Deer Alberta? The company has looked at both...and she says we are definitely on the short list!
Bottom line is both of these sites are on a railroad and both have fairly easy access to water! Hopefully this thing will go ahead?