What percentage of feed barley do you sell to the CWB

[craig]

I thought it might be an interesting exercise to see what percentage of feed barley sales go to the board. I know what happens in my area but curious to see what happens in other areas.

[TOM4CWB]

Craig,

It has been over 10 years since we have shipped the CWB barley. We grow seed barley and have found no reason to take a discount price... especially when we have our own trucks to arbitage the market on feed.

The swapping with stocks that goes on really distorts the feed barley in western Canada... I wonder how many people know how much switching goes on... and what it costs the CWB?

[FarmRanger]

Hmm, let's see, sell it to the board for a buck less than the feeder down the road.

I think the percentage is pretty low down here in southern Alberta.

[BennyHin]

Feed barley is a good example of "Dual Marketing", where both the non-boards and the board can both market the same commodity. This "dual marketing" doesn't result in driving up farmers bid prices, all it will do is remove the CWB completely from the scene. Then non-board bids will not even have to consider pricing themselves competitively to CWB initials(or PRO's) for such grades as 3 red spring, feed barley and 4 and 5 CWAD. These spot values will tank.

[BennyHin]

Tom:
Are you saying these big nasty grain companies are making too much money? I thought that the revenue they earned thru stock switching allowed them the ability to compete among each other via higher non-board (and board) barley bids in terms of higher spot prices or $20/tonne trucking premiums?

[Ron]

BennyHinn
Are you high?

Feed barley is a good example of "Dual Marketing", where both the non-boards and the board can both market the same commodity. This "dual marketing" doesn't result in driving up farmers bid prices, all it will do is remove the CWB completely from the scene. Then non-board bids will not even have to consider pricing themselves competitively to CWB initials(or PRO's) for such grades as 3 red spring, feed barley and 4 and 5 CWAD. These spot values will tank.


Why is the non-board higher than the board? Without the feed barley market the CWB wouldnt even be doing the crappy marketing job they are now for malt.
I really cant understand how your argument works.

[BennyHin]

ron why do you think the cwb doesnt sell or cant sell into the domestic feed barley market?

ron how much designated barley do the canadian malsters buy each yr?

how much of this is later exported as malt barley?

what is the total size of the designated barley pools [with respect to total domestic demand ]

what is the average international designated barley price year to date, with respect to the cwb pool return?

[BennyHin]

yeh hah, ridem cowboy.

[Ron]

I started to reply but to hell with it. You are a PRO CWB cult member and I wont bother trying to reason with you. The bottom line is since 1992 I have never seen a CWB feed barley price higher than the non-board price (whoops, the cash barley market tanked when the CWB jerked out the intercontinental barley market in 1993 for a couple weeks was the same as the initial payment then sanity prevailed)

[charliep]

ron why do you think the cwb doesnt sell or cant sell into the domestic feed barley market? NO IDEA. HELP US OUT. MAYBE BECAUSE FARMERS DON'T CONTRACT WITH THE CWB BECAUSE OF LOW INITIAL PAYMENTS/UNCOMPETIIVE PAYMENTS RELATIVE TO DOMESTIC FEED GRAIN PRICES. HARD TO SELL SOMETHING YOU DON'T HAVE OR TO QUOTE A BOSS TO A SENIOR TRADER AFTER THEY SHORTED THE FLAX MARKET WITH NO ELEVATOR INVENTORY - NEVER SELL OUT OF AN EMPTY WAGON.

ron how much designated barley do the canadian malsters buy each yr? JUST UNDER 1 MILLION TONNES

how much of this is later exported as malt barley? MY ASSUMPTION IS NONE BUT YOUR ANSWER WOULD SEEM TO INDICATE SOMETHING ELSE. SHARE.

what is the total size of the designated barley pools [with respect to total domestic demand ] THE DESIGNATED BARLEY POOL IS NORMALLY ABOUT 2 MILLION TONNES OUT OF TOTAL CONSUMPTION OF 12 TO 13 MILLION TONNES.

what is the average international designated barley price year to date, with respect to the cwb pool return? DON'T KNOW THE INTERNATIONAL AVERAGE BUT CAN COMPARE TO OTHER MARKETS. SEE BELOW FOR MONTANA BARLEY PRICES.

http://www.choicematters.gov.ab.ca

IF THERE ARE GRAPHS AVAILABLE THAT WOULD DEMONSTRATE CWB PRICING/PERFORMANCE TO DATE, I WOULD ENCOURAGE YOU TO POST THE LINK.

BENNYHIN - HOW MUCH BARLEY DO YOU CONTRACT WITH THE CWB?

[charliep]

how much of this is later exported as malt barley? JUST HAVE TO GET CLARIFICATION. MALTSTERS SOURCE ANYWHERE FROM A QUARTER TO HALF OUT OF THE ELEVATOR SYSTEM. THIS IS SLOWLY CHANGING BECAUSE MALSTERS DON'T LIKE BLENDED MALT BARLEY.

YOU MAY ALSO BE REFERRING TO WHAT PERCENTAGE OF MALT PRODUCT IS USED DOMESTICALLY - ABOUT 300,000 TONNES OR 30 % OF MALT PRODUCTION.

[parsley]

You're yelling so loudly chaliep, I can't sleep!

Parsley

[craig]

BennyHin
Your logic doesn't work this year. An open malt barley market would better reflected values in the malt market and provide less incentive for producers to try and back out of contracts and in turn dump this barley in the feed market.There would in all likelyhood would be longer term contracts in place. In an open feed market you again would have seen a better reflection of world barley prices and in all likelyhood would have drawn more barley stocks off shore which in turn would have had a positive spin on local prices. As you stated what the board in fact does is put a bottom floor on prices. Sadly those values are often so low they aren't even relevant.

[BennyHin]

Charlie: I dont grow it, I fertilize basis feed production. I just want people on this site to clarify their findings with some background research, after all the internet has armed us with lots of information, unfortunately most of it is garbage.

By the way Charlie, phone the brewers of Canada or ask the CGC about the export clearances of malt products. The reason I raised this question is that the Canadian malsters not only sell their products domestically, but also into highly completive export markets, so they cannot afford to buy ALL 1 MMT of des barley basis the domestic market values.


MALT:
Grain, usually barley, that has been allowed to sprout, used chiefly in brewing and distilling.

[charliep]

So what you are saying that the maltsters have malt barley priced relative to the export market they are selling product into. I would assume US malt product markets would pay the same as a Canadian brewer. I assume that Japan wouldn't be to far off. So that leaves other markets where the maltsters sell product in competition with Europe. Total numbers on malt product are in the annual report but not the breakdown of customers - available in several studies.

When I talk to directly to malsters, they are willing to sacrifice this benefit from farmers (lower prices for a portion of pool returns) in exchange for the ability to communicate more directly with farmers on price/delivery. Today's situation (lower malt PRO relative to the domestic feed market) is not working for malsters. I encourage you to review the attached document to understand why.

http://www.wbga.org/market-signals.pdf