Will CP please Define Cuba?

[northfarmer]

Cp, Mustardman.....have been to Cuba, have toured more than just the tourist spots, spoke to many well educated people there that served my drinks and drove me around because those are the best jobs....

they measure their standard of living by whether or not they have to squat over a pipe to take a dump or sit on a seat like we do, most are forced to the first.....this may be better than a lot of other S American Countries, but not as good off in general as Chile, Brazil and Argentina, of which I have also toured.....

when I was there several years back most could not wait for the old geezer Fidel to croak, most support him out of fears of reprisals, and the public adolation and marches are all a show....the have spies of the government among them and to be known as a non supporter does not bode well...

there will be changes there no doubt in the future.....just like things will not stay the same here or south of the border....

but alas...if our liberal/centrist/ conservative ideolgies in N America do not serve you well there are still some other spots in the world that will have you, but may never let you go once they get their hooks into you....LOL

[FarmRanger]

Communism has been an abject failure anywhere it’s been tried. The only people with a high standard of living under communism are a few elites who keep those privileges by exercising brutal authority. Everyone else exists in an environment where hard work isn’t rewarded, expressing dissent is met with imprisonment or death, and free flow of information is viciously suppressed. Elections, if they exist at all, are not free, nor democratic. If it’s so wonderful, why can’t they tolerate competition of ideas and information?

A previous poster said “The U.S has used and abused many of these countries taking every thing out and putting nothing back”. Yep, just like Japan, and Germany after WW2. /sarcasm off. Germany was actually a good example of a country divided between communists in the east and capitalist in the west. Anyone who knows history remembers the vast difference in standard of living between East and West Germany. Similar to Cuba, it was so “wonderful” under the communists, they had to build a wall to keep East Germans from escaping to the west, and killed anyone who tried.

[cottonpicken]

Farm ranger have you ever heard of a little country called china?The next super power of the world.

3500 dollars doesnt sound like alot but it still puts them in the top half of the global population.And that money goes a lot further down there than up here.

Parsly how the hell can you talk about cuba without mentioning the us.Talking about us policies is factual not bashing.

I'll give you another fact you wont be able to wrap your head around.
Your great southern saviour is bankrupt.

[parsley]

cottonpicken,

Will you will agree that Canadians have a higher income, have more technology, and travel more then Cubans?

Parsley

[cottonpicken]

Only if you agree we are the second largest country flush with natural resource wealth and havent been isolated from the rest of the world by a bully.

Just got off the phone with my brother who was just there and he said there was no anti-castro feelings from the people.

[TOM4CWB]

Cottonpicken,

You said;

"The cold wars over guys you can all come out of your mental bunkers its safe."

Are you a "single desk" spy?

Are you saying I can market my wheat and barley to anyone... without fear of being arrested, if I didn't send all my profit from that grain to the CWB, (through the buybacK)?

I believe Some Jokes are in order...!

Why was East German toilet paper always two ply?

Because the SOviet Union told them they must send a copy of everything back to Moscow!

Two men on the street meet... and the one without toilet paper sees the other guy has a nice roll of toilet paper.

He is very angry and asks where the other guy got toilet paper from, because he couldn't buy any anywhere!

The guy with the toilet paper begs him... Please leave me alone...

I didn't buy it...I just got mine back from the dry-cleaners!



AN East German Tourist wanting to defect is answering a Canadian Border Guard's Questions:

CDN Border Guard: What is the political situation in your country?

E. German. Refugee: Can't complain.

CDN Border Guard: WHat about Human Rights?

E. German. Refugee: Can't complain!

CDN Border Guard: WHat about Economic Rights and freedoms?

E. German. Refugee: Can't complain!!

CDN Border Guard: THEn why are you seeking asylum in Canada?

E. German. Refugee: Can't complain!!!!!!


The CWB "single deskers" spending grain growers money, trying to brainwash me, into the false belief that they are maximising my grain revenues...

When clearly I can see the opposite is in fact the case...

And then adding insult to injury: the CWB suing Minister Strahl, spending millions in the process... I am only asking these communist practices to stop...

The CWB is Simply proving the point... those seeking freedom... are completely justified in saying that the CWB is communism!



Of the growing number of jokes being told in the last days... a Soviet party member said:

That these jokes would eventually just go away...

Because the class enemies of the state, were causing the problem, eventually they would run out of things to complain about...

A day would come when all the problems would be solved... and there wouldn't be anything more to joke about!



A young man is ordering a new Car in the Soviet Union.

He must pay for it 10 years in advance.

It takes months... but he eventually gets all the permits in order... gets his money together... in cash... and goes down to buy it from the Soviet Car store!

The young fellow hands the Car Purchase clerk the money... and asks: when will I get my car?

The Car Purchase clerk says: In ten years.

The young fellow asks: In the morning or the afternoon?

The Car Purchase clerk says: What difference would that make?

The young fellow says: Because the plumber is coming in the morning that day!

[parsley]

I agree we are the second largest country in mass. Hong Kong is a peanut compared to Canada's mass, but when China rented them out to England for 100 years, the people finally began to prosper. That was the political system that realized better living.

I agree that we are flush with natural resource wealth, and within the political system we have chosen, we are developing resources into industries, oil for example, (albeit some a little more slowly than I would like).

I agree we aren't isolated from the rest. We choose to integrate into the rest of the world and we choose a political system that abides by the rule of law.

If we expropriated all of France's interests in Canada,for example, I think we should expect a backlash.

Would Canada be better off if we chased out all foreign investment and built a wall, and disallowed foreign currency? Hardly.

The system we have chosen has garnered Canadians a higher income, more technology, and more travel then Cubans have.

Cuba made a choice and lives with it.

I consider myself very fortunate to live in Canada, cottonpicken.

Parsley

[FarmRanger]

Hmm, what happened to all the anti-Castro Cubans? It wouldn’t have anything to do with the public executions of anyone caught opposing the government, would it? As a cuban, complaining to foreigners about Castro might not be the best thing for your personal security?

Calling the current Chinese economy communist, is a bit of a stretch. While they still have many leftovers of some of the more unsavory human rights abuses of their totalitarian regime (forced prison labor), they have largely adopted a capital based economy. Inviting foreign investment, and allowing capital ownership isn’t exactly what you’d call communism, is it? Easing communist restrictions is driving the current economic boom in China, certainly not more socialism. Murderous tyrants like Castro have never figured this out.

[liberty]

It absolutely amazes me how many people still feel compelled to defend a vicious dictatorship like Cuba. For Pete's sake, I know people in the NDP who will admit that there is no excuse for Castro's dictatorship and that it is long past the time for him to go. Why can't these apologists for totalitarianism update their thinking?

The Castro-worshippers remind me of the fellow travellers who used to, as recently as the late 1980's, sing the praises of supposedly progressive, hardworking and contented East Germany. When the Berlin Wall came down, however, it became instantly apparent that all East Germany was really good at was producing spies, pollution, and Trabants.

As for the notion that all of Cuba's problems can be blamed on the U.S. embargo, I would counter that Cuba is quite free to trade with virtually any other country in the world. They may not be able to buy Buicks, but they can buy Ladas or Yugos. The reason why they do not is simple: a nation that produces next to nothing, can afford next to nothing. Those are the unavoidable consequences of a centrally planned economy.

[cottonpicken]

OK let me get this strait.We tell cuba to open up into a free market and then canada in all its righteous glory turns around and subisdises its ag sector undermining cuba and any other poor countries economy.How about manufacturing(bombardier)?
Does anyone here think we are a true free and open market?
Ive said it before and i'll say it again-OUR ECONOMY IS CALLED COMMAND AND CONTROL NOT CAPITALIST FREE MARKET
If your an armchair economist parsly i'd like to here your thoughts on this.

[jensend]

and i guess all the free marketers will campaign against any subsidy for ethanol production??? part of that subsidy is going in the grain growers pocket if the extra demand pushes prices up. but, but, but

[FarmRanger]

I’m not sure where you are going with your argument cotton? Cuban peoples freedom to work hard and reap the rewards of a capital economy must be done by Canada’s coercion? Is it wrong for us to care about the suffering of fellow human beings, and try to do something to improve their lot? Maybe the Canadian socialists are afraid that when they travel to Cuba they might have to pay more for drinks because their waiter got a better job in a market economy?

We have many restrictions on the Canadian free market economy. Some good, some bad, and some arguable like the CWB restrictions for prairie farmers. Whatever warts our country has, they are infinitely preferable to living under a communist dictatorship.

[FarmRanger]

Jensend, it depends on what you’re trying to achieve, whether you subsidize biofuels or not. Personally, I agree that we can kickstart these industries to try to wean us off fossil fuels. If people aren’t willing to pay more for biofuel for environmental reasons in the long run, and people vote to end biofuel production with their wallets, then the industry won’t prosper without subsidies, but should it?

Wouldn’t you agree that there is more environmental benefit from biofuels than we got from promising impossible emissions reductions, and then ignoring them with the intent of writing a cheque to China paying for the amount we missed our Kyoto targets? At least biofuel benefits Canadian farmers.

[chaffmeister]

Cottonpicken:

First you seem to think that Canada helping Ukraine is misguided….. (Remember Charlie’s trip and follow-up posting where you said “If the situation was reversed would they help us?”)
Now you seem to think that, through domestic subsidization, Canada will “undermine Cuba and any other poor countries economy”.

What do you really believe? Or are you just plain cynical? Or do you just like picking fights?

You also ask: “Does anyone here think we are a true free and open market?”

Do you actually care what anyone else here thinks? (I recall a posting of yours saying that you didn’t.) Or is this just your way of mocking others and goading them into saying something that you can then attack?

You also said “OUR ECONOMY IS CALLED COMMAND AND CONTROL NOT CAPITALIST FREE MARKET”.

Fine. I guess it’s settled now. (However, I’m still a bit confused……How is it that you can FREELY buy and sell equities and commodities, thereby profiting from your market savvy, yet the economy is not a “capitalist free market”?)

Here's one for you -

The only really true free market is a “black market”. But an economy and culture that resists the need for one is considerably better off without it.

[cottonpicken]

I didnt start this fight/debate i believe i was the one goaded in.
I dont have a right to defend my position on a subject?
Do i believe communism is a good idea? NO,but our own system is far from perfect.
I was simply trying to explain the accomplishments of a great peoples who have been fighting an up hill battle for a long time.I didnt think anyone here would egknowledge that fact and i was right.Cuba=communist dictatorship=evil and thats that.
There is a very good reason why socialism is sweeping across latin and south america(even mexico came within a hair and a civil war).

As far as not caring about anyone thinks-the context was i dont care what anyone thinks of MY market views.

My market speculation is based upon the fact we have a flawed system.