KYOTO again

[TOM4CWB]

Wedino,

I wouldn't bet against CP on grain prices right now... China woke up, India has many hungry mouths to feed... if we get a production shortfall... it will drive markets loopy.

We are now in the energy age... and grains will equalise with oil in value at some point.

This should be the real point of Kyoto... we need a balance in the way it is implemented.

[parsley]

Can you cite a convincing response, cottonpickin, or do you just need to indulge in your usual daily nasty-tantrum?

I am not suggesting that North American leaders act as "les rois faineants" (do nothing kings), but have you looked at Kyoto's record:

1. Kyoto was negotiated in 1997.

2. At that time the Chretien Government committed to reducing Canada's emmissions.

3. The stated goal was to reduce emmissions 6% BELOW the 1990 levels, and this was to be done by 2012.

4. By 2005, under the same Government, Canada's emmissions had actually increased by 24%.

Read that again cottonpickin,

Increased by 24% in 2005.

So asking, how effective was Kyoto,and is the process doable, becomes a legitimate question.

Couple that with Kyoto's operationl scheme to transfer carbon-credit wealth to third world countries, when it could be said that keeping that wealth in-country would not only benefit Canadians, but the less-emissions goals as well, so I think there is room for questioning.

FYI: Nor did I say 'I did or did not' watch the documentary.

You can be so much more, if you could just step back and listen to yourself.

We need all farmers cottonpickin, but your snarling makes it more difficult to entertain or value your ideas.

Parsley

[cottonpicken]

Parsly reread your post about gore.
Watch the movie and THEN tell me what you think.
Gore does not portray himself as a know it all scientist.

China is putting up one coal fired power plant every week.They have HUGE coal reserves.
The clever ALBERTANS have decided to go after coal bed methane gas.
29,000 POOR CHILDREN die needlessly every single day.

Ill let you connect the dots.

We have a large problem on our hands.

Were about to face even more severe consiquences.

If your not going to pull your own weight then somebody else will have to do it for you.BECAUSE this is all our problem.

[parsley]

cottonpicken, let's follow written on this thread.

1.You queried:

"Anybody take the time to watch the documentry."


2.I thought I'd better verify (maybe you were referring to orangutangs):

"Gore's documentary, right? "

3. and then I referenced Steyn, on the point he made; being, that Gore(not me) claims we are :

"altering the balance of energy between our planet and the rest of the universe".

It was his point/thought/idea, and I properly credited him with it, but I will list his book, so you can better check:

p.xxiii from America Alone, The end of the World as we know it", written by Mark Steyn and published by RegneryPublishing Corp. $34.95

I'll quote a short passage from him directly:

QUOTE
The "balance of energy" between earth and "the rest of the universe"? You wouldn't happen to have the statistical evidence for that, would you? Universal "balance of energy" graphs for 1940 and 1873? Heigh-ho"
UNQUOTE

5.I simply cannot locate where I said or did not say I saw the documentary.

6. FYI
#1 polluter in Canada is Ontario Hydro.

#3 polluter in Canada is Saskatchewan Power Corporation.

7.I've documented my dots.

8. Our farm has made significant environmental changes, but we can alwys learn more.

What exactly can you offer in the way of constructive environmental policy, other than ranting and accusations?

Since you completely ignored the 24% increase in emmissions since 2005, I presume your problem-solving entails more of the same.

Parsley

[cottonpicken]

Parsly i feel like im banging my head against a wall.
Global warming is a fact
Co2 causes it-fact
Humans create massive amounts of co2-fact.
There are co2 measurements going back 650,000 years-fact
The worlds scientists are not argueing about if there is or isnt global warming-fact
The worlds scientists are not argueing about what is causing the warming-fact
There is a massive disinformation campaign going on that you and many others have been suckered into believing-fact
You have not watched the movie -fact

You are believing a lie.
If you dont believe in global warming why do you keep bringing up canadas emmissions problems?
Of course the liberal bone heads screwed up.
What does the balance of the energy in the universe have to do with anything?
emmissions growth curve is now exponetially growing.

[parsley]

1. This discussion was never about whether emmissions should decrease. Of course they should, cottonpickin. This discussion is about how best to do it. That being said:

1.Could we agree that the Kyoto approach resulted in unacceptable emmissions?

2. If Al Gore represents the voice of environmentalists, then he shouldn't claim emmissions/pollution 'alters the balance of energy between our planet and the rest of the universe', because scientists/folks start to say,really, I didn't know that, show me the studies.

There are no studies showing the relationship between energy and the galaxies,/planets etc.

Gore uses stupid hype in his presentations and that results in a lack of credibility.

3. You live in Saskatchewan, if I recall. What suggestions do you have about SaskPower as the #3 polluter in Canada?

4.Stephane Dion had the environment portfolio and he did nothing.

5. What new direction would you like cottonpickin/Sasktatchewan/Canada heading for? If you feel so strongly cottonpickin, you should do more than piss and shout.

Parsley

[silverback]

I guess every movie that is made is the absolute truth and nothing but the truth?

Michael Moore, Oliver Stone, and now Al Gore.

Uhhh right.

[FarmRanger]

...and a movie made by a failed politician definitely wouldn't ever have any intention of misleading the public.

Instead of banging your head against a wall, maybe try giving it a shake.

[mustardman]

Cottonpicken don't let this thread bother you,
I hear the Flat Earth Society is looking for new members and I think Parsley and his pals would fit in great!

[cowman]

Cottenpicken: There is nothing wrong with trying to clean up the environment. That is a very commendable thing to do.
Kyoto is not the answer. It is nothing more than a socialist wealth transfer.
The government(whoever they will be after the election) will do something. It probably will very inadequate, but at least a start?
Everyone of us can do our own little bit? And in reality that is about all we can do? On the 60 minutes show Al Gore spoke about this? In his own personal case he has changed his house to use less energy, insulation, lights bulbs, furnace filter? He claims those acts alone...by every household...will be the equivalent of hundreds of thousands of cars! If we all do our part we can turn things around...but we have to start personally.

[parsley]

mustardman,

One suggestion for farms, your farm too, would be that creeks, large slough areas, good sized bushes etc, could be 'satellite-carbonated',if you know what I mean, and those carbon credits would be reflected on your tax notice as a tax credit for you.



Parsley

[mustardman]

Parsley ,
having to buy carbon credits is simply the working of the free market. If you are a C02 emmitter you will be fined (in other words ,having to buycredits)

If you are constantly having to fork out money to buy credits, Do you not think that maybe as a businessman you would clean up your plant so as not to emit as much ?
Yes you would.

[mustardman]

Back again- I do agree that the liberal gov't signed on and didn't do squat about emmisions after that. I hope the conservatives will but right now they are simply borrowing their "green platform " from liberal ideas.
Someone once said "conservatives are simply liberals in a hurry! "

I hope they do hurry.

Yes our zero tilled land has value in carbon credits- actually if Canada was still in Kyota it would be worth a whole lot more per acre than now.

[cottonpicken]

Parsly i'm begging you and everyone else to watch it.

Your opinon of gore will change.

Your opinion of what is happening will change.

Has anyone here watched it?
What are your thoughts?