Finally someone has said it

[just_wondering]

1st paragraph of what Morris said was.
It is not the point whether it is good or bad or whether things are as they should be. It is to the point that trends in farm consolidation are facts of life, resulting from forces that cannot be stopped, and which for all anyone knows are still intensifying.

Unlike many of the other farmers in Canada I am young (31) I wish that I had more neighbors and that the school that my kids will go to will not have split classes, and will have all the programs that they had even 10 years ago. I wish that my neighbors had the time to stp and talk and that I did not spend my summer scouting and spraying.
The point that I was trying to figure was what should govt policy be?
I think that the one size fits all model has been an abject failure.
I also wonder sometimes what would be the matter if there was corporate Ag. There are mining towns,fishing towns, forrestry, and Oil. Thats just in rural Canada you could also add steel mills and car factories maybe we could all work for big bad multinationals work 50 hrs a week and focus on the aspect we like. production/marketing and all their subsets. How many small towns (<500) will be there in 15-25 years. If you talk to young guys in these towns now ask them where they will fid wives, many women there now want to leave and most city girls are not that open minded.
Its not a matter of picking winners and loosers its finding a way that will be sustainable into the future. I DON'T want Factory farming but what is the alternative?
Cowman I have read your past posts about reducing the national cowherd to match domestic needs but where does that leave the acres that will be idled who pays for that society.
I'll check back later and reply to other posts but for now I'm working this weekend.

[parsley]

Just reading the new Steven Harper book and thought you'd enjoy a few stats from it, pages 80-81

From 1961-1985, $70 Billion of the net surplus was extracted from Western Canada and sent to Ottawa.

The West only had 29% of the population, but had 34% of the economic activity.

The West received only:

15% of the development grants from 1985-85

19.5% of job creation funds from 84-85

14% of the Federal Procurement from Supplies and Services for 80-83..


You get the picture.

Western money is sent to Santa Claus in Ottawa.
_______________________________________This is from Statistics Canada webpage:

In 2004, the average per acre price of farmland in Eastern Canada was $2,671, more than four times higher than the average of $632 an acre in Western Canada.

Dairy Income:
Saskatchewan
Quantity Milk and Cream 217,264 kilolitres
Value $ thousands 132,366

QUEBEC
2,861,363 kilolitres
Value $ thousands 1,852,488

There's more at play here than just increased volume through expansion.

Farmers know WELL how to create wealth. We just need to be able to keep more of that wealth.

Parsley

[AdamSmith]

Well actually cotton, it’s called “a debate”

Cowman did make a reasonable argument, but where cowman made the mistake, as we all tend to do, myself included, is that he jumped to the most extreme example possible (Cargill and ADM owning all the farms) to make the point. But I understood his point none the less, that farming and agriculture are just as much about a rural lifestyle and culture as it is a business.

But the reality is that Cargill and ADM don’t want to own land and operate farms, at least not grain farms. So the likelihood of that happening is next to zero.

What we are talking about is recognition of the importance of financial viability and self sufficiency and the fact that to pretend its 1952 where you can make a decent and rewarding living and raise a family from a small farm alone is doing a disservice to everyone involved.

What we’re talking about is who’s interests should Western Canada’s Ag policy be targeted to serve best? The 20% who generate 84% of the wealth creation or the 80% who create 16%.

I think it’s a debate that is worthwhile having, even if you don’t.

[BennyHin]

Adam Smith:

You are right. Why would Cargill and ADm want to own farmland, when in say, 20 years, they will tell us what to grow, and what price is acceptable. (ask a ON or MB hog farmer how the future will look like)

[BennyHin]

AdamSmith:
You sound like a smart person to me, although we have differing opinions on marketing).
I was only pointing out the short comings of Morris Dorrish's ranting and ravings. He puts no research into his work, it is all Ideaolgy.

Surely most of you read his publications as the weekend comic strips.

If not then you better start reading Lawrence Solomons' research about how much He and Morris realy have a complete distain for rual communities. That is what is a community, it it has no people. Basis Lawerence Solomon and Morris Dorris, all we need (as Taxpayers) is more Hutterite colonies.

Here is what Morris and Lawrence think of W. Canadian farmers:

http://www.urban-renaissance.org/urbanren/index.cfm?DSP=content&ContentID=4450

[parsley]

Government programs simply corode the farmer/farm-community's sense of self-reliance.

Parsley

[wilagro]

parsley: Reading that Harper propaganda will corrode your mind. That you could believe such one-sided analyses is beyond me. Don't you know what political bulls*** is? Harper has proven many times over that he is for big business interests and ANYTHING goes to further their causes.

[parsley]

wilagrow, actually, it is a very recent and interesting autobiography written by William Johnson and published by McClelland and Stewart called " Stephen Harper and the Future of Canada".

Bob Rae's books are on the shelves, too, if they are more in your comfort zone.

We read them all, wilagrow.

Reading, studying and debating what somebody else thinks is how you come to make a better informed decision.

As Mark Steyn says, "..in most Muslim juridictions, there is simply no culture of inquiry".

Enjoy having choice.

Remember, it was old Willy Shakespeare who said we know what we are, but know not what we may be.

Parsley

[just_wondering]

What are we going to do to see that there are farmers and farm towns here in 10/20/30 yrs.
If you ask many large farmers the biggest problem they have is finding labour to do the jobs that need to be done. Almost every farm in my area could use one or more sesonal helpers to get the crop in and off.
But the question then becomes what do you do with them fo the winter?
Is it now time to start bringing in mexicans/chinese/ ukranian?
Charlie or was it Lee who-ever went to the Ukraine did many of the farm workers or management ask you of life in Canada with hopes that someday they will come over much as my ancestors did 100 yrs ago.
In our local school division there are people looking at bringing in 100's of ESL kids to help keep the schools open I say bring the whole family if they are able to work and keep them in the country for a few years so they can put down roots then if they want to leave for the city let them. That would be one possible solution
Now I would like to hear one from each of you. If you criticize someone elses solution build upon it, or offer alternatives what do you think

[parsley]

Take your school back.

Districts managed just fine to hire teachers, and run their schools locally.

Centralization only benefits the cities.


Send a letter of formal withdrawal to the school unit and secede.

Run your farm, your community and your towns in a way that makes for a strong community.

The reason we have a mess is because we have politely allowed someone else to do it for us.

Parsley