ritter

[HFL]

Snappy-I was not offended. I am happy to be 48. I hope I get the chance to be 80 or 90. Around here the "old" guys that like things as they are are 70 or 80. The young guys ( like me ) are in their 40s and 50s and would like to see some changes. Of course there are exceptions to every rule.

[parsley]

snappy, I was just kidding!

I have every confidence in young people. If my-agers have done a good job of raising kids, we can sit back, watch the young folks building the next forty-year-block, drink tequilla, and enjoy every minute they chose to share with us.

We had our turn, now let the young folks have their turn. In everything.

That's how my-agers get our report cards.

Parsley

[chaffmeister]

Note to Burbert and the rest of the Borg:

I am not a “Farmer for Justice”.
I am not a broker.
I am not a “clip board buyer” (whatever that is).
I am not a grain buyer – nor do I work for one.
I am not a “big boy”.
I am not even a farmer.
I have no financial interest in farming or in what you do or not do. Whether the CWB keeps its single desk in barley or not will have no impact on my life. My interest in this topic is solely on the basis of being tired of hearing the spin by the CWB while KNOWING what the facts are. I wish I could share all that I've seen how the CWB “operates” – but then again, you probably wouldn’t believe me anyway…... I can tell you this much - I believe this institution is costing you so much money and opportunity it’s obscene. The way the CWB operates and treats farmers is such an injustice I simply can’t sit back and do nothing. It’s the same thing as seeing a woman getting assaulted on the street – I can’t just walk by and do nothing.

What I want to know is this: What is it about the CWB that makes you support and defend it so blindly? You don’t have the facts, don’t want the facts and dismiss and insult anyone trying to explain the facts. Your faith is so utterly blind that your judgment is clouded. It’s worse than a cult – it’s the Borg.

I actually had one guy here on Agriville say that it doesn’t matter if the CWB performs well or not!!! I need to understand this.

I don’t mean to insult you – I just want to be frank because I truly and sincerely want to understand this unwavering devotion to a concept that is unproven and has verifiable evidence disputing its claims of value.

Consider this – if you fail at convincing the “other side” because all you did was sling insults and attend protest rallies and the like, that will be your legacy. If you truly believe that Rome is burning, stop fiddling. In case you’re interested, you won’t convince anyone by insulting them and adding nothing to the debate.

(In case it matters, if someone could prove (and I mean PROVE) to me that the CWB is adding value to the farmer, I'd be in the CWB camp straight away. Consider it a challenge. (Just don't cite any economic study. Give me facts, not theory.)

[HFL]

So Chaff- Good post. You must be a former board employee or somthing. Sounds like you have some inside info. Too bad you can't share some more. I too am amazed at the blind faith that people have for this wheat board. People that are skeptical of everything else and everybody else willingly turn over their grain to someone who has no accountability to them at all and let them sell it. With no evidence other than a few phoney studies that they are getting good service. Boggles my mind.

[parsley]

If you go over to Beef Marketing, I made a topic over there, and kato made known his experience with growing oats, now out of the Board.

Have any of you sold oats latley to make a knowlegable reply?


Parsley

[cottonpicken]

The packers are buying cattle herds.
Why would they do this?
Leverage in setting the price.

Cargill is buying land.
I'll get the specifics when i talk to the guy that told me.

Oil companies are buying land.
Its happening close to where i live.

Back to the dead horse.

CHAFF or anyone why was the board started in the first place?

I believe everybody has a right to do what they want with there product but lets take a look back into history.

Im 32 and not afraid of change but im not going to dismiss my 92 year old grandfathers thoughts on the subject.After all he started behind a horse.

What are the reasons it was started?
Why did almost everyone support it?

[grassfarmer]

Why Parsley? I thought you were the know it all who was telling us beef boys how it was?

[grassfarmer]

CP,"I believe everybody has a right to do what they want with there product but lets take a look back into history".

CP, if you believe everybody is entitled to do what they want with their own product, why are you so against a Dual Market System??

Cp "What are the reasons it was started?
Why did almost everyone support it?"

I'm not saying over the years the CWB has not done good things. But you can't compare 70 years ago to now. Times change. People change. It is time to move forward. My Dad is 70 years old, and thinks I'm crazy to have a Dual Market system. But I also know my Dad doesn't have a clue on how grain is marketed today, it's a completly different ballgame from years ago.

My Dad, cursed my a** out 10 years ago, when I suggested switching from Westar Canola to RR Canola, now says it was the best move we ever made. Two years later I suggested Direct Seeding, I was crazy "it don't work not to work the land he said". Now 8 years later says it was the best thing we ever did.

We can't be afraid of change.

[parsley]

I will begin some lengthy quotes from Access to Information if you really want to hear what went on in the backrooms!
In a new topic.

This topic is Ritter, and cottonpickin reminded me, ever so nicely, about topics, and I am trying to be a little more orderly

Parsley

[HFL]

1. The monopoly was created to control prices and provide low cost wheat to Britain during and after the second world war.
2. I don't know why they supported it then. I don't know why people support it today.

[kamichel]

In the Thirties the CWB was formed because the open market price of wheat was very low. The CWB was formed and offered 80 cents per bushel minimum to the farmer. Everyone gave their grain to the CWB. The federal government made up the difference at the end of the year. The next year the open market price was higher than the CWB min. price so all farmers gave their grain to the open market. The next year the CWB min. price was higher than the open market could give so all the farmers gave their grain to the CWB. Costed the federal government huge amounts of money. Went back and forth that way untill sometime in the mid 40's. The CWB had been granted a monopoly. Through the CWB western farmers had got huge amounts of money flowing from Ottawa as high as 61 million dollar in one year, in them days was quite a bit of money.
I just don't think all the credit should be given to the CWB , it was Ottawa money that covered their asses every year. Yes there was a time that the open market value of grain was very low. If the value is low it is low. It is not in the big grain company's best interest to run farmers out of business.

[Burbert]

Chaffmeister, You have no vested interest whatsoever in the grain industry! You are here trying to help us, cause you have lots of time on your hands! RETIRRED.
Well howdiedo, and all this time, I thought your were trying to help us poor dim wit, pinko leaning, dirt gubbing, chieslers, trying to make a living within a civilized system. Thankyou for your concern. Guess you don't even get a vote in the upcoming Pleb, what a shame.... Guess that makes us a bit different though cause I have a vested interest in what happens.

[silverback]

Then quit your bitchin and just mark the ballot the way you want.

You want the gov't to keep things the way they are, vote #1.

By the way, what is "civilized" about forcing your neighbors to ship their product with yours?

[parsley]

I agree. If you want more of the same Vote for #1.

[chaffmeister]

Burbert:
Here we go again.

You truly are a conundrum. You insult those on Agriville that have a different view of things because they might be “farmers for justice hiding and pretending to be legit, representing us little farmers. They are brokers and clip board buyers that want our grain cheap, basically chislers.” Basically, if they have a different opinion than you and they have a vested interest, you don’t trust their motives.

I explain that I am none of these characters you don’t trust and that by not having a vested interest I am not trying to “pad my own nest”.

First you insulted me because you thought I had a vested interest; now I’m being insulted because I DON’T. There’s no way I can “win” unless I agree with you. It crystal clear why the pro-choice camp argues on the grounds of personal freedom. It’s because people like you tell them what they MUST do but provide no logic or reason to support your “directive”. I believe most people are reasonable; if they’re told that an idea is a good idea and get a good explanation for it, they’ll consider it. If they don’t get the explanation and feel like its being thrust upon them against their better judgment, they will push back and say “thanks, but no thanks”. At an extreme, if they can’t say no (because this great idea is mandatory), but still get no evidence to explain why it’s a good thing, they rebel.

The pro-choice camp keeps explaining why choice will work and why the CWB in its current form doesn’t. They use personal experience, evidence and logic.

The pro-CWB camp has never explained why the CWB is the best route. (Faulty studies and the NFU or CWB throwing bogus numbers do not help in the least.) They simply attack those that disagree with them. Frankly, this is not a good way to convince others.

Burbert, you can throw insults at me all you like, and you can try to minimize my input. But you will never change the fact that the CWB is costing you money, lots of money. You can remain blind to it if you like, but keeping your blinders on will not keep others out there from seeing what is really happening.

I’m sure you know the saying, “lead, follow or get out of the way”. Well, you’re clearly not leading, and from what you say I’m certain you won’t follow, so that just leaves one option for you.

Here are a few other quotes that seem to apply here:

"Men's minds are too ready to excuse guilt in themselves."
— Titus Livius, Roman historian and philosopher (59 BC-AD 17)

“Liberty means responsibility. That’s why most men dread it.”
— George Bernard Shaw, Anglo-Irish dramatist and wit (1856-1950)

"Life is not so short but that there is always time enough for courtesy."
— Ralph Waldo Emerson, American essayist, public philosopher and poet (1803-1882)

"When a man is wrong and won’t admit it, he always gets angry."
— Thomas Haliburton, Canadian writer (1796-1865)

“Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great.”
— Mark Twain (Samuel Clemens), American humorist, author and journalist (1835-1910)