DEF question

[tubs]

We deleted our 4 years ago and eliminated all the problems,sprayer was the worst get it loaded with chemical get 2 miles from home and the darn thing went in limp mode. Dealer always came out quick bbbbbbbbut it cost me their travel time 450 dollars each time.

[fjlip]

"although the exhaust is dirtier ..would it not be less harmful in the long run burning 20% less fuel?"

We don't really know IF dirtier and some smart guys could calculate the total emissions either way...IF you believe them. It's always WHO do you believe?

[furrowtickler]

Downtime is a serious issue with def.
take a combine for example, roughly average 1000 bus / hr between wheat and canola
average $12 / bus
$12,000 / hr when that combine is down with def related issues
thats on top of the $20,000 plus in extra costs added to the machine with all DEF components.
Add the cost of DEF itself , and higher fuel use .
it’s no wonder some are deleting DEF .
then add the down time across all powered units on farm . DEF has become a massive expense in most farms . Also ties up valuable service time for dealers at critical times of the year .
nothing worse than having a DEF issue at 5 am at seeding or spraying time or after 6 pm at harvest time .
always seems to happen when adverse weather closing in .

most of these newer machines are already very clean burning before these unreliable DEF systems.
they are getting better , but the big costs and frustrations have created this .

[Sodbuster]

If they actually looked at the total carbon footprint of these new DEF injected machines, and you include all the service trucks, tow trucks and all the extra money to make and put all these components on a combine, truck or tractor you would definitely have a way bigger carbon footprint as compared to how things were before. Emissions have come a long way in the last 20 years. I still remember our first semi truck with a 6V53 Detroit, now those engines had a lot of extra emissions. It’s time for our governments to look at the big picture and clean up their act.

[biglentil]

Shops in the US have been fined upwards of $250k for just performing routine service on deleted trucks and not reporting it to the EPA. Best not to give em ideas with threads like this. Delete. What delete?

[fjlip]

Vote Trump...KILL all the EPA crap, laws rules that ruin NA!!

Aussies exempt!

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Not judging or suggesting, just saying!

I find it odd that farmers are fighting or asking to have Carbon tax removed on some things like heating and propane for drying grain on one hand and then deleting factory DEF on equipment on the other. Doesn't make for good optics to other people and industries that are trying to change their ways for the environment and we want them to see farmers as environment leaders.

I do agree with you on this one.
But I think that battle has been lost already. The average consumer doesn't know the difference between pollution and CO2. To say nothing of the politicians and media and everyone's favorite internet troll.
My impression is that most people think that emission controls are CO2 controls.
And that they also think that plant food is pollution.
I'm not sure how we win that battle.

[TOM4CWB]

This has much more to do with particulates and nitrous oxides…, CO 2 is not a direct health hazard like the other emissions which are reduced significantly… they cause cancer and lung damage.

Blessings and Wisdom

[ajl]

So heres my question and im too lazy to search for the answer... if only we knew someone on agriville who did nothing other than post green energy and carbon tax info and articles every 9 minutes??

So had a neighbour delete his def on his big new holland 4wd 550 hp etc
And after the delete hes burning 0 def ( it was atrociously high prior to) but now hes burning 20 to 25% less fuel and has more power... so
although the exhaust is dirtier ..would it not be less harmful in the long run burning 20% less fuel?
My brain isnt exactly a rocket science computer but the math checks out.... does it not?

This is precisely why your not qualified for gubmint work. You simply don't understand the new math. You also need to understand that EV's are emissions free in order to be qualified.

[blackpowder]

Agree with everyone here. But.
Talked to the dealer manager whom I've known for 25 years.
Their outlet had ~100 combines operating in season. This year 10 had def related call outs. 9 of which were one trip, first day of use stuff. 1 unit was multiple callout.
Often maintenance related.
All repaired same day or next.
If you trade back to him you have to restore before it comes in.
Most buyers turned off by deletes.
Which I get. So many hp bumps sold along with. It's a $100k engine. Ask how they know this.
Can't imagine delete without exhaust system change. On this unit anyway.
So far, mine not a lemon. I'll keep the def for now.
Older daily use chore tractors I would do tho.

[bucket]

Someone has to do the math on these systems. The larger combines are getting more done per hour, so even with older style engines without all the emissions crap on them wouldn't be polluting as much anyway. Lower engine hours equals lower emissions. I just wish these guys with 8 years of post secondary education would focus on some simple math. A tractor , sprayer , combine at rest does not pollute. Lower hours with more done.

The newer machines use more fuel and with the addition of DEF create more emissions at the refinery stage where the public sees the emissions (mostly steam) .

If any of the crap they put on combines actually has made a significant difference , I would be surprised as my fuel usage is up plus adding DEF.

Its all quite stupid and why does anyone need a combine engine running hotter?

[fjlip]

Article on CBC, low sulphur diesel reducing polluting oxides SO MUCH that the sun is increasing our temps faster? These green phuckers are making things WORSE!

It's hopeless. Less C02= cooler, till sun's heat is not reflected, then we get warmer?

I said all greenhouse gases, mainly water vapor, insulate and reflect.