And the games continue....

[chaffmeister]

Dec 28th: US Wheat Associates reported that Algeria buys Canadian durum because, among other things, according to the Director General of the Office Algérien Interprofessionnel des Céréales (OAIC), "(CWB's) selling prices in Algeria are very low, since our country benefits from preferential prices".

Jan 29th: Western Barley Growers Association issues a news release reacting to the comments made by the OAIC as presented by US Wheat Associates.

Feb 5th: Reported in the CWB's email "The Bulletin", in an undated copy of a letter the CWB apparently sent to US Wheat Associates, the CWB has countered the allegations stating "at no point does Mr. Kacem (of the OAIC) say that they enjoy "very low prices". The CWB goes so far as to suggest the US Wheat Associates make a correction in their next newsletter.


Regardless of whether the term "low prices" can be used here or not, don't lose sight of the fact that the CWB, as the sole durum supplier to Algeria, is providing “preferential prices” worth “tens of dollars per tonne” PLUS many added services that should be charged for. The CWB never countered these points but they are at risk of being forgotten or assumed incorrect because the CWB “corrected” the other phrase.

This is just another case of the CWB finding minor fault in a public comment, either criticizing or correcting it on a “technical” level, and succeeding in distracting attention from the real issue - the CWB has not proven it adds value and it will do whatever it can to distract you from the truth.

(What's the difference between "too low" and "preferential prices" anyway?)


"Once integrity goes, the rest is a piece of cake."
— J.R. Ewing, lead character the TV show “Dallas”

[agstar77]

Could be a big difference, but of course you would always look at the half full glass, whenever the CWB is involved.

[parsley]

agstar77,

What accredited exporter would be handling those Algerian sales?

Eagle Sterling?

Parsley

[chaffmeister]

Agstar77 - A big difference? Please explain. If I'm a buyer and someone is giving me "preferential prices" on the stuff I'm buying, you can be sure I'm not thinking "higher than others are paying" - I'm thinking "lower than anyone else".

How are they different? And please don't dismiss this with some trite platitude or dismissive comment. If you believe, show it.

[agstar77]

Given the same qualities and the importance of the Algerian market I would expect that they would get a better deal than a sometimes buyer. Whether that means better credit terms or some other deal, that would be up for negotiation. Do you not give repeat customers a better deal or do you charge them more than the market?

[chaffmeister]

Some inconsistencies here:

- You say we should expect a long-term customer to get a “better deal”. But we know that the CWB will undercut AEs when they're trying to “develop” new customers.
- You say we should expect a long-term customer to get a “better deal”. The CWB says they DO NOT discount. Hmmm……
- You ask “Do you not give repeat customers a better deal or do you charge them more than the market?” The CWB and academics in its camp say that Japan, a long-term customer, pays premiums over other sources. Premiums usually mean “more than the market”. Are you saying that Japan doesn’t pay premiums because it’s a long-term customer? If you're right, then the U of S and the CWB is wrong.

Algeria is a long-term customer of the CWB. They like buying from the CWB for a number of reasons:
- the CWB offers pricing options – can price the contract at different times of the year
- the CWB offers no.3 with a small premium for 2’s and a discount for 4’s
- flexible shipping schedule and size of vessels
- the CWB excels in other services not provided by France and the US – technical support (CIGI courses) and they send people over to teach them how to mill the durum (like Algerians don’t know how to make couscous?!)
- the CWB looks after the freight
- easy payment terms

Anyway you look at it, Algeria is getting a very good deal (and they apparently know it). The question remains – is the western Canadian farmer getting an equally good deal from selling to Algeria under these terms?

[chaffmeister]

But I digress.

The purpose of this thread was to show how the CWB does a masterful job at warping facts to discredit others or take credit where they shouldn't and generally put up teflon shields whenever attacked.

Here's another example.

AU recently started publishing FOB Vancouver prices for export feed barley. The CWB's spokesperson, Maureen Fitzhenry dismissed this by saying "You can quote any price you want, as long as you're not trading it". She also apparently said that AU's price "seemed to reflect recent feed barley sales made into the Japanese market, where demand is limited". She seems to be dismissing AU's price as irrelevant. I think she was saying that AU's price is not a reflection of the market because Japan pays more than others and their demand is limited.

HOWEVER -
I heard CWB barley salesman Bob Cuthbert say recently that Japan was the only market they were selling into right now. To me, that makes AU's prices quite relevant.

So, maybe we should get the CWB to retract its comments and acknowledge publicly that AU's prices do in fact reflect the true market for Canadian feed barley right now.


If only they were as masterful at operating the single desk.


“It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it.”
— Upton Sinclair, American author and politician (1878-1968)

[agstar77]

If the CWB is giving false statements it would be the duty of any or all of the elected or appointed directors to repudiate them. Since this has not happened I can only believe the veracity of their statements.

[chaffmeister]

Sure. I just have one question:

Which statement?

"at no point does Mr. Kacem (of the OAIC) say that they enjoy "very low prices".
OR
the CWB, as the sole durum supplier to Algeria, is providing “preferential prices” worth “tens of dollars per tonne.

I guess both....
And what about:

AU's price seemed to reflect recent feed barley sales made into the Japanese market, where demand is limited
OR
Japan was the only market they were selling into right now.


As you can see they aren't really "false" statements, just misleading. We need the CWB to say publicly:

We provide Algeria preferential prices on durum because (enter truthful and clear reason here).

AND

AU's feed barley prices are a realistic representation of the current export market price for Canadian feed barley.

Agstar77 - perhaps you could call your director and push for this kind of openness and clarity.

[charliep]

On feed barley prices, the CWB put out similar prices to the weekly press. See this weeks market price section - right in column bottom of the gray section. Will show US $193 to $195/tonne PNW. UK barley is $206 to $210/tonne.

[FarmRanger]

Hey Charlie, where would that $193 per tonne price in the U.S. be located? That’s higher than the feedlot alley price!

[charliep]

The price is Portland, Oregon. You can find the quoted price on page 14 of the Feb. 1 issue of the western producer - far right column under international grain prices. Note that is also FOB so need to take costs to load a ship. Price around $230/tonne Canadian.

Lets see. CWB price - Cdn $230/tonne fob. Agricore United price - about $230/tonne fob. WCE price - about $222/tonne instore (need to add cost of loading a boat). After 3 sources, I think the west coast for feed barley is about $230/tonne fob or Cdn $215 to $220/tonne instore. Current initial payment $190/tonne for feed and $205 for malt.

[charliep]

Oops. Not initial (I wish). Should PRO.

[TOM4CWB]

Charlie,

THe initial SHOULD be as you said... with the start of new barley pools!

How could we not be closer to world value?

With decent risk management the CWB should be able to turning barley through the system at warp speed!

The CWB can cash buy any day of the week... why wouldn't they?