Put up or Shut up.

[silverback]

How is it that supporters of the cwb don't believe in the benefits of the institution enough to tell others to go off on their own then?

If it truly is such a bastion of higher prices and profits for its farmer "members", why fight so hard to keep others from going off on their own with their wheat or barley?

Let's just say I start a business with some friends and it turns into a real good place to work and everyone is making money and is very happy. One day one of the co-owners comes in and says he thinks he can do better on his own. Now if our company is really doing good and everyone is getting paid well, why would the other owners care if one of them left?

It makes no sense.

Instead of trotting out studies showing how much more money is being made or will be lost, or how bad the new government is, or how evil the very companies that move the grain around the world are, or dismissing every logical argument made against them, or admitting that it is ok to deny people their freedoms as long as nobody does better in life than someone else, or ... why don't the supporters just say "ok, we are going to take our cwb, and it's employees, and it's way of doing business and we will show you cwb deniers!"????

Is it possible that maybe you truly don't believe it is doing a good job, but you just can't think otherwise?

If you farmer supporters produce such a high quality product, why not operate your own cwb and keep it away from the unwashed? It should be pretty easy to get some start up capital from Sask. and Manitoba. You can swipe some of the good employees from the cwb to help run the thing.

Take a chance.

Stop the name calling and the moaning to keep things the way they have been for 60 years. Times change.

[kamichel]

Could it be that we want to be humble and that we want the rest of the world walking all over us. Example, oil prices.

Is it because we really think we controle the world price?

Is because we think grain will get trucked south and a brick wall errected if farmers uncontrollably drive south?

Just something to think about.

[TOM4CWB]

Kamicheal,

Speaking of Oil,

If Western Canada is to be the worlds largest supplier of oil to the US... shouldn't we also have the privilage to ship high quality grain into that market?

By the way... is there a problem with the way oil prices are set?

Is there a brick wall on Canola, Oats, Peas, Canary Seed, Grass seed, Auto Parts... and the 1001 other items that make Canada and the US the closest trading partners on the planet?

Why exactly should there be a problem on wheat or barley either...

[lesm]

There is no logic left in this whole cwb debate. Experts from both side have presented their arguments, however I'm sure, not one vote has shifted to either side. This has become a sort of political, religious debate- either you believe or don't. I am a dissedent, non believer and deserve punishment. Every organization, whether polical,religious or unions have their trouble makers, and are handled accordingly-eviction. Please cwb supporters, be bold and courageous and hand my due punishment and I promise never to enter the realms of the cwb from now to eternity. If you don't, the consequences could be devestating. I and the likes of me will be a thorn in your side forever and eventially we will destroy your beloved board. Get rid of us now and then you could regroup the likes of Wendy Holm, Richard Gray, Meisser, and Ritter and live in Utopia. The rest of us will be damned and sent to hell of the open market.

[chaffmeister]

Tom:
The problem has been with the CWB - not necessarily "wheat" and certainly not other grains and oilseeds.

And why is there this perception that there would be an "uncontrollable" convoy of trucks moving south to the elevators in Montana and North Dakota?

In a functioning market where both US and Canadian elevator companies compete into US flour mills, the flow of Canadian wheat would more than likely move by train from Canadian elevators.

Sorry, silverback - a little off topic but I seriously can't answer your question. The only thing I can think of is that CWB supporters believe that the CWB has market clout that puts more money in their pockets (it doesn't) and that market clout requires the single desk.

So, even in the face of mounting evidence to the contrary, CWB supporters fight for the single desk - which means you and everyone else must comply.


‘Faced with changing one's mind, or proving that there is no need to do so, most people get busy on the proof.’

— John Kenneth Galbraith

[chuckChuck]

To the above posts regarding US Canada trade. Have you not learned anything from our experiences with lumber, pork, beef and wheat. So why has R Calf continued to oppose Canadian Imports of beef. Is that the fault of the CWB too? The US are great free traders when it is in their political interest otherwise they are protectionist.

[chaffmeister]

And just how does a change to the CWB make it worse?

[JohnKenneth]

like yer quote, chaff!

i'm in total agreement on the u.s. border issue. trade flows are based on supply an demand, not the structure of any particular trader.

the cattle lobby in the states is fanatically nuts, kind of like the propaganda-generators at the cwb. there is no better example to compare what might happen than oats. we supply well over half the u.s.'s import needs but does anyone here truck directly to end users or elevators across the line? didn't think so. dry beans? soybeans? canola? flax? sunflowers?

i was told from a friend in governmentthat this is precisely the issue that's holding up policymakers who might otherwise be sitting on the fence. they figure all the complaints are coming from a few loud farmers sitting across the border wanting to deliver to u.s. elevators.

making them understand the likely new structure of the market and pricing, as chaff described, would go a long ways to erasing these worries. might be a better use of the 'market choice alliances' time than surveys, just a thought.

[chuckChuck]

Chaff: Do you seriously think that US farmers are going to be happy when Canadian grain plugs their northern tier elevators and lowers their prices? You must be in a huge denial mode. Currently the CWB manages US trade with rail sales to end users primarily avoiding US elevators.

[chaffmeister]

chuckChuck:
With all due respect, you're not paying attention. Take off your blinders and re-read my earlier post.

(How often do you drive past nearby elevators to deliver into a distant one?)

[JohnKenneth]

Again, the concern is baseless. In what other sector, even where more of our surplus moves directly into northern U.S. markets, do you see

"Canadian grain plugging their elevators and lowering their prices?"

"You must be in a huge denial mode." No, i just know how price discovery works.

"Currently the CWB manages US trade with rail sales to end users primarily avoiding US elevators."

What do you think grain companies do for a living? Sell to each other all day long?

[Burbert]

Western Canada is going to be the largest supplier of oil to the US in future. PLEASE do not believe that drivel, because that is just what it is, baloney!

[charliep]

As a note, grain has become part of the energy economy. Changes in the US are creating a vacuum as Canada back fills US grain needs and off shore customers that traditionally buy from the US start looking for other supplies. Agree on the comment that local elevators will be the best buyer but changes in distribution patterns in the US will leave some facilities short and likely create opportunities to move Canadian product - particularly in the North West US. I suspect everything about grain logistics will change with the new local processing based bio fuels economy ramping up. I assume the US won't welcome our grain in the future.

Interesting the differences between canola and wheat. Canola attitude - invest in bio diesel facilities now or Canada will loose the processing capacity to the US. Wheat - keep the CWB to control US exports/make sure the US doesn't close the border.

[lesm]

Burbert, Read this:
BU.S. Getting More Oil from Africa than Middle East



For the first time in 21 years, the U.S. has imported more oil from Africa than the Middle East.
(2/22/2007)
Farm Futures staff

The U.S. imported more crude oil from Africa than the Middle East for the first time in 21 years in 2006, according to government data.

U.S. crude imports were down 0.3% in 2006 from the year before, according to Energy Information Administration data - though 2005's import numbers were inflated by hurricanes' disruption of Gulf Coast operations that year.

Africa and the Middle East each accounted for 22% of U.S. crude imports, with Africa leading by a narrow 8,000 barrels a day. The 2.23 million barrels a day from Africa was the most since 1979 and 4.8% more than in 2005. Africa made up less than 13% of U.S. crude imports as recently as 2002.

The growing Asian market, led by an expected 6.2% increase in demand in China, is drawing much of the Middle East's oil.

Canada remains the top U.S. crude oil supplier and Mexico remained second despite a drop in output.

[Burbert]

lesm, The US is at war, right now with factions in the Middle East DUHH! When bush and his wild eyed boys are history. The world will stabilize again and guess what, the price of oil will drop. We are all fighting the war on terror, paying the high price at the pumps!!