Explain why our inputs are way higher than US farmers

[sawfly]

saskfarmer has a good point. this is a huge issue.
Maybe we have some political voice now , but that can change any time.

As group we have huge economic power. Sadly we dont use it.
Burbet is right in that , we are too busy fighting amongst ourselves to get anything done.

Instead every farmer should at least do one thing , that benifits us as a whole.

It may have been a pain for the few that brought in carloads of 46-0-0 thru FNA , a year ago.
As soon as it happened, the price dropped 50$ tonne for everyone.

the fert. chem .grain. rail companies are doing their job extracting every possible $ out of the market.(their managers would be fired if they didn't)

if the fert. co.s can gouge in canada and not in the states they will.

However you want to do it a co-op, corporation , We have to make competition where none exists, or we will be peons forever.

[sawfly]

So Benny what's your plan this fall?? You think you're going to see $350 by fall again?? See how well you do this year.

I bought all mine last fall also, but I know I'm screwed this fall. Because we will get offered a price in fall for $500 and will all jump at it.

[silverback]

That may be true cp, but in late dec or early jan you were expressing surprise at 46 prices in the mid $400's.

Whatever you say, you are still the smartest one here.

[wilagro]

I think that the "smart" ones are the ones "selling" the fertilizer.

If as farmer consumers/users and you're NOT buying from some sort of co-operative, then you deserve to pay more for ever and ever, amen.

[BennyHin]

Saskfarmer and Snapper:

If you re-read my original post, I mentioned "I was lucky this time, next year, who knows". That was the substance of my post. Even though you have all sorts of market information at hand via the internet, what do you do with it? Is it valid? How much of it is written by credible sources? There is lots of bad information on the internet.

As for your previous question, no I do not fall band normally, I went away from that 10 years ago. I seed direct with NH3 side-banded.

But I switched back last fall as the spring fert prices are becoming to volatile. This is unfortunate, as I do not like the effect of fall banded fertilizer on our waterways.

Snappy, as for my fertilizer recommendation for next year:

Lock it in when urea or NH3 are at 35 cents. I think this will happen between the last half June to the end of August.
Once the spring time demand decreases, the manufactures will still want to keep moving product during this period. With nat gas futures still low, they are still making lots at 35 cents. But they do not want to sell too much at this price level, as it will hurt fall and spring volumes at higher price levels.


But this prediction is way too far out to be too dependable, lots of weather and market volatility ahead of us.

As for importing N sources offshore to drive prices down, I don't think there is currently enough supply to do that.


Again, just my humble opinion.

[SASKFARMER3]

Here is something to also think about. Why hasn't the Fert used by the city folks for their lawn not increased or doubled in price.
Just ready to fert my front lawn next week and guess what its lower than I paid last year.
HA think about that for a while the urban consumer in Canada and the Us buys how much fert in a year.
As for information on Internet Ill be back from the relatives Monday down to ND on weekend Ill check.

[BennyHin]

SKfarmer:

But those urbanites sure pay lots for their roundup. Next time you re in a urban hardware store, pick up one of those 1L roundup containers and read the label.

It will astound you how much they pay (basis active ingredient).

It makes you wonder how the chemical companies calculate a reasonable retail "farm" price for inputs?

[SASKFARMER3]

Benny were again talking about fertilizer, but OK your right Monsanto has creamed the urban consumers with roundup line etc and they pay through the nose but my comparison is fert. No increase here yet were getting gouged.

[SASKFARMER3]

Just heading out but talked to relative who booked all his NH3 in ND and converted to Canadian and doing all the conversions the price paid is

# .33 cents a lb #

He will take about 6000 acres at 80lb now.

$158,400.00 Canadian

Now our farm will need over 6000 but for comparison.

6000 x .553 x 80 = $265,440.00 Canadian

That's a difference of $107,040.00

Some thing is wrong with this picture since his is coming from Belleplain and so is mine.

Recent article in USA paper

DALE HILDEBRANT, Farm & Ranch Guide
“Anhydrous ammonia about the same price at between $450 to $480 a ton, and phosphate has gone up $100 a ton this year as well,” Franzen noted. “Urea prices are at record highs and I have never seen 28 percent this high before, however, ammonia prices are off a little from their all time high.”

In assessing the current price situation, Franzen noted that in the past the price of natural gas has been the main driver in the price of nitrogen fertilizer, which it still is. But nitrogen fertilizer prices shouldn't be this high according to natural gas prices.

“The problem is that in 2005 most of the fertilizer suppliers and dealers took a very strong position on storage and they put a lot in storage anticipating an increase in spring sales,” he explained. “That increase didn't happen, there was excess supply in the country and the price went down. The first time in 30 years that I have been around the fertilizer business that spring prices were less than fall prices.





“That put a bad taste in the mouth of the fertilizer industry and they decided they weren't going to lay in those large supplies again this year,” he continued. “And in the mean time we have had all these ethanol plants come in. We're going to be seeding seven to eight percent more corn across the country and corn sucks up fertilizer many times more than what we would put on for wheat. In fact, if you look at a seven to eight percent increase in corn acres in the Corn Belt, that equals the amount of nitrogen and phosphorus that we apply in the entire state of North Dakota. So it's like adding an entire state of demand.

“And since the suppliers aren't filled up with product we have a shortage developing. You can't just call up St. Paul and have it come in, because they don't make nitrogen in the United States anymore. It's manufactured in countries like Kuwait and Venezuela, and you just don't call up Kuwait and ask them to send up a barge of nitrogen tomorrow. It doesn't happen and we have this huge shortage,” he added.



This shortage - and not so much the price of natural gas since that price is actually cheaper than it was last year - is actually what's created the increase in price.

Franzen noted that the fertilizer industry needs to develop a plan where they can order the product a year in advance with some confidence.

“It used to be fairly easy to predict,” he said. “You had farm programs and you had to plant so many acres of corn, so many acres of this and so many acres of that. Now, it's completely flexible and people can change their mind on a whim. So if you take a strong position on fertilizer and have a large supply you can get burned. But then if you take a weak position and you don't have enough for your customers that's a big problem, too.

“Somehow this problem needs to be resolved, and I think it's in the middle of being resolved now. Unfortunately, the prices are high and the growers are the ones that have to bear the brunt of all of this while they are trying to figure out what to do,” he concluded

[JACKFLASH]

Sask farmer: I have to commend you for getting the farm and ranch. An excellent paper.
Plain and simple. Fert companies saw the expected demand and capped production, up go prices.
Don't fool yourself, things aren't better on the farm between fert.,and fuel prices going up.,were no better than last year.
Had a German buyer pop into my yard today. Empasising the benefits of organic farming.Parsley you may know him. Is he legit! Sure gets you thinking. Last name starts with a B. If what he says is true half and half farming is the way to go.

[JACKFLASH]

Sask farmer: I have to commend you for getting the farm and ranch. An excellent paper.
Plain and simple. Fert companies saw the expected demand and capped production, up go prices.
Don't fool yourself, things aren't better on the farm between fert.,and fuel prices going up.,were no better than last year.
Had a German buyer pop into my yard today. Empasising the benefits of organic farming.Parsley you may know him. Is he legit! Sure gets you thinking. Last name starts with a B. If what he says is true half and half farming is the way to go.

[parsley]

Germans are really good organic customers, and they can afford to spend more of their disposible income on food.

We had basic brochures transalted in German probably 18 years ago. (Dutch, too) They pay well, another.. G-7.

Farmer to customer.

It works well because he always adds, "BTW, I know a guy....", and first thing you know, Customer #2 calls.

Parsley